Games » Chicago White Sox
Aug19Guthrie’s great start
Lee Judge
The Kansas City Star
Where do you start? Jeremy Guthrie taking a no-hitter into the eighth? The scorekeeping decision that ended his no-hit bid? The standing ovation Guthrie got afterward? The ball that went between Eric Hosmer’s legs that tied the game? The comeback the Royals staged in the next half-inning? The Royals sweeping the first-place White Sox? This game had so many plot lines it made an episode of “Lost” look comprehensible.
Game notes
• Guthrie continued to make the Cabrera-for-Sanchez-for-Guthrie deal look good. Since he’s been here in KC, Guthrie has been working with pitching coach Dave Eiland on some adjustments, and they seem to be working. Guthrie has added a bit more inward turn in his windup (front knee going up and back), which can hide the ball longer and make sure Jeremy gets his weight back before delivering the ball to home plate.
• That inward turn also can take a little longer to unfold, so Jeremy has to use other tricks to freeze the base-runners. One of the best tricks is not having base-runners. When Guthrie finally gave up a run Sunday, it ended a streak of 22 consecutive scoreless innings.
• When a pitcher has a no-hitter going, the baseball traditions kick in. You don’t mention it. You don’t talk to the pitcher. One of the biggest traditions is that the first hit should be a clean one. Jeremy lost his no-hitter when Alcides Escobar went back on the grass and threw a one-hopper to Eric Hosmer. The throw beat the runner, Paul Konerko, but the ball didn’t stick in Eric’s mitt. Let’s just say a number of Royals were disappointed that the ruling was a base hit and not an E-3.
• After the crowd booed the ruling, they gave Guthrie a standing ovation. He didn’t appear to notice or let the ruling affect him. He just threw the next pitch.
• Guthrie came back out for the eighth, got two quick outs and then gave up back-to-back singles. Chicago’s Dayan Viciedo hit a clean single up the middle on the ninth pitch of the at-bat. The Royals were only up by two runs at that point, and suddenly the tying run was at the plate.
• The last time a Royals pitcher took a no-hit bid past the fifth inning, manager Ned Yost told me he didn’t want a guy throwing a no-hitter to look down and see the bullpen busy. Why put that thought in a pitcher’s head? Guthrie was still pitching great and just approaching 100 pitches, but when the next batter, Ray Olmedo, swung at the first pitch and singled, the winning run was at the plate, just like that.
• I didn’t think Ned would let Guthrie face the winning run and risk taking a loss, and he didn’t. Catcher Salvador Perez came out to stall, and when the umpire broke that up, Ned came out to make the change.
• With a two-run lead, runners on first and second, two outs and the left-handed Dewayne Wise at the plate, Ned brought in Tim Collins. After the game, I asked Tim whether he had adequate time to warm up and he said yes, it only take a few throws for him to get ready. Wise hit a shot at Hosmer, Eric came up, and the ball didn’t. E-3 all the way. The ball went down in the right-field corner, and the one thing that shouldn’t have happened — extra bases — did, and the game was tied.
• OK. Here’s the short version of what happened next. Butler walked, Dyson pinch-ran, stole second, and scored on a Perez single. Salvy advanced on the throw home. Mike Moustakas was trying to pull the ball to the right side to advance Perez to third, and Jesse Crain, the White Sox pitcher, was pitching him away to prevent that. Crain walked Moose, struck out Jeff Francoeur, and the lefty Donnie Veal came in to face Hosmer.
Veal walked Hosmer, and Nate Jones replaced Veal in order to face Johnny Giavotella. Gio hit what should have been a double-play ball to third. Ray Olmedo threw home to catcher A.J. Pierzynski for the first out, and A.J. threw the ball to hell and gone … and there, pretty much was your ballgame.
A couple other things
• In the first inning, third-base coach Eddie Rodriguez got Mike Moustakas thrown out at the plate, but it was more a great play by Chicago’s Gordon Beckham than a bad decision by Eddie. The ball that Eric Hosmer hit went through up the middle but didn’t have a lot of steam on it. Beckham got to it and threw Moose out at home from the center-field grass.
• Giavotella made a mental mistake in the third. He led off the inning by hitting the ball down the left-field line, which is usually a double, but the left fielder, Dayan Viciedo, got there quickly, and Johnny was thrown out easily at second. With no outs, the rule is no risks. Don’t advance unless you’re sure.
• With two outs and the count 3-0, Adam Dunn got the green light. With two down, a walk to Dunn would have meant the Sox probably would need at least two more hits to score him. Manger Robin Ventura figured Dunn was already in scoring position and let him take a shot at the cheap seats. Guthrie pitched him up in the zone and got a pop-up.
• Alcides Escobar go his 10th base-hit bunt of the season. I don’t know what his average is when he bunts, but I suppose someone must keep that stat somewhere. If someone doesn’t come up with an answer before the Royals return to Kansas City, I’ll try to ask hitting coach Kevin Seitzer when the team gets back in town.
• Mike Moustakas is hitting the ball again, so I asked what changed. Moose said he’s just being more selective, waiting for a pitch he can handle.
• Salvador Perez kept a run off the board when he blocked Greg Holland’s first pitch with a runner on third.
A big jump
I asked Johnny Giavotella what the biggest difference is between the pitching he faced in Triple A and the pitching in the big leagues. He summed it up in one word: control. In Triple A, a 2-0 count often gets you a “cookie” (a fastball down the middle). In the big leagues, they might throw any pitch in any count. In Triple A, pitchers often make a couple of mistakes per at-bat. In the big leagues, you might get one.
Johnny also said the overall game is faster. That may have played a part in him getting thrown out at second in this game … I don’t know, I didn’t get to talk to him afterward. But players will tell you everything happens faster at the big-league level.
Perez
Guthrie
Holland
Jim Fetterolf
10 months ago“I don’t know what his average is when he bunts,”
10 for 23, .434 I think.
Jeff Frost
10 months agoHey Lee! Great column as always! A few questions: 1) Who is the Royals scorekeeper and how do they get that assignment? Are they selected by the team or MLB?? Tough call- at the time, I didn’t agree you break up a no-no on a call like that, but it was all mute later on. 2) Do you hear anything on the potential of signing Guthrie to a 3-4 year contract in-season, right now, instead of letting him test the waters?? That would go a long ways toward solidifying a lot of things for next year, especially with Paulino and Duffy probably not going to be 100% until 2014. 3) What are the rumblings on the Royals picking up Jack’s contract for next year?? With Collins, Crow, Herrera, and Holland being lights out this year, tough choice ahead! 4) Is Rusty Kuntz as nice a guy as he seems to be??? Is that a rug?? :) 5) What is Seitzer doing to shorten Hos’ swing? He is too long and front shoulder always opening up? Is that what they feel is the problem this year, or what does Kevin think is going on??
Thanks for all your great insights!
John Wilson
10 months agoGood starting pitching makes such a difference! So is Guthrie for real or just on a streak?
How long should Paulino and Duffy be out assuming a normal Tommy John recovery?
Any thoughts on if Chen will be back next season?
Daniel Wesley
10 months agoJohn, Chen is under contract for next year. He’ll be back unless the Royals manage to swing some kind of trade, which isn’t likely.
Guthrie has a career 4.36 ERA, 5.5 K/9. 2.7 BB/9 in 1100+ innings. He’s a nice backend of the rotation guy, will eat innings and typically keep you in the game. He’s looked like Greinke circa 2009 the past couple of weeks, but I wouldn’t expect that out of him consistently. If I were the GM of the Royals, I’d offer him a 2 year deal with a mutual team option for the 3rd.
Daniel Wesley
10 months agoOops, ‘mutual option’ not ‘mutual team option’…
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoJeremy Guthrie will be 34 next April, so that is a factor in a long contract. His performance looks real, good velocity, good location, good movement. He has been a successful pitcher before his shoulder injury and Coors Field, four straight years of 30 or more starts, averaged over 200 innings for those four years, ERA around 4.20 for those years in the AL. Quite a bit more dependable than Shaun Marcum, a pitcher discussed quite a bit as an FA target. Marcum will be 32 in December.
On Soria, the assumption is that they’ll buy him out, then try to resign him. Second surgery can be iffy.
Bruce Chen has another year on his contract.
TJS is usually considered a 12-14 month turnaround. Reasonable for the two would be around the ASB next year latest.
Terry Payne
10 months agoWhat is Hochevar’s contract status?
John Wilson
10 months agoThis may be jumping the gun but if Mendozza, Guthrie, Chen, Hoch, and Smith are solid the rest of the season, then what next for off-season FA pickups? There is no guarrantee that Duffy or Paulino will successfully remake themselves after surgery. Do you risk trading one of them to get a potentially stronger starting pitcher?
Thoughts?
Larry Tindle
10 months agoAll I can say is it was great to get back to the K after missing way too many games. Love the energy today.
Jeff Frost
10 months agoI think you always look to recreate yourself, even when successful, to sustain future success. Billy Beane has done this well in Oakland- and NO, this isn’t even tied to Moneyball. Trade players while their value is high and get players that will make you better in the future, as long as you got prospects to fill in. Look at what he did with Mulder, Hudson, Pena, Chavez, Tajeda. He learned that if you wait for them to hit free agency, ala Giambi and Damon, you only get draft choices in return. Dayton has sort of done that with the Broxton trade, and obviously the Greinke trade. I think the Greinke/Betancourt trade will be a foundational trade for the Royals for MANY years to come! Escobar is an all star, Cain could be, and Odorizzi and Jeffress still show a ton of potential.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoLuke Hochevar is arbitration eligible, making $3.2 mil this year as I recall. Could get a raise if he finishes strong, will come in around $5 mil max. There is discussion of non-tender amongst us in the chattering class, but I doubt it. He is simultaneously the worst and the best starter we’ve had all year, so I expect him kept, although a trade of “underachievers” is always possible. That’s how we got Guthrie.
John, TJS has gotten a lot better over the years, so it is probable that the four pitchers can come back, sometimes even with improved velocity. As about mid-year is the best guess for the starters, if they look good there could be deadline trades.
Jeff, that is also Tampa’s way. For the Royals, we’ve finally reached the point where we have valuable veterans to trade, but not sure how the fans would react to trading Alex for ten hot minor league prospects or Big Bill for a handful of minor league arms. Next year it could be different if we get an FA and if Duffy and Paulino come back and if Odorizzi is what we hope for and if Guthrie is kept and if Mendoza and Smith are fer realz. Lot of ifs, but finally the chance to trade established vets for more prospects and make the Process truly self-sustaining at a high level, as Tampa has done.
Terry Payne
10 months agoI really don’t see any team wanting to trade for “damaged goods,” plus, I think the team thinks Duffy and Pauling both have a lot potential upside.
IF the current rotation ran remain intact and largely successful, I think mgmnt will TRY to land a Free Agent, try to develop another starter from the minors, try to develop another starter from the bullpen. I think they’ll do these things in the order listed.
Lee Judge
10 months agoJeff: The scorekeeper today was Del Black, but it’s a job that rotates among several people. I’m not sure who employs them.
I don’t know anything about Guthrie’s contract status or anybody else’s. Dayton and I say hi and talk once in a while, but I’m not in the inner circle.
Yes, Rusty Kuntz is just as nice in person as he seems to be and yeah, that’s his real hair.
Seitzer has talked about Hosmer’s swing getting “big” and I know Eric has put a lot of pressure on himself to be a run-producer. I think moving him down in the lineup was a way of saying it’s OK to be yourself, that’s good enough. The game’s hard enough, don’t put so much pressure on yourself.
Everybody out there thinks Hosmer is just too talented not to make it, he’s just got to find the right amount of pressure on the throttle and he’ll be OK.
Jeff Frost
10 months agoThanks Lee! Do you fly with the Royals? I bet that was a great flight! Get the Rays!
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoJust looking at the returns on three month rentals for pitchers last month, that would be a factor in signing an FA for three years even if we only need him for one or two, get a hoped-for frontline starter, then flip him for prospects like has been done with Zack twice.
I don’t expect Duffy to be traded, maybe ever. I don’t expect Paulino traded next year if healthy. Thinking more in terms of Mendoza, ground ball pitcher that the Rockies could use, just as an example. I don’t see Dayton Moore trading pitching prospects or even young major leaguers.
So nice to have some success. Had the two pitchers, Cain, and Perez not gotten hurt this team the last few weeks would have been what we saw all year. Baseball is like that.
Thayne Griffin
10 months agoWhat a game. Like Ned said afterwards, if this was earlier in the year, we would have wilted and lost this game.
Glad we had Dyson on the bench today as well.
And A1 has always been my man, but Salvy is getting there. He is a machine right now.
And am I crazy or did Frenchy just have 5 walks in 2 games?? Are we sure the apocalypse isn’t happening????
Great homestand!
Terry Payne
10 months agoAgree re: Frenchy. A little patience never hurt anybody at the plate. Better pitch selection, as Mous indicated helps more than anything.
John Wilson
10 months agoAnother thought to ponder: Did the Royals housecleaning of Sanchez, Broxton, Betancourt and Sisson have anything to do with the recent resurgence? The timing seems quite coincidental. I’m just excited to see the Royals playing like I was hoping for when the season began! Or maybe it was my appearance at the August 2nd game that got it started? LOL
Walking Butler to get to Perez - that’s not looking like a winning strategy for opposing teams.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoAnd a hot Perez means they have to pitch to Big Bill instead of working around him, which means he may break the team HR record. The guy on deck has a lot to do with the pitches a batter sees.
Terry Payne
10 months agoIF Soria can come all the way back and resume his closer role, that would make it a lot easier to turn a Collins, an Herrera, a Crow, a Holland into a starter.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoTerry, I’ve given some thought to the possibility that they try to turn Soria back into a starter during his rehab. He has multiple pitches and the idea has been tossed around for a few years.
John Wilson
10 months agoI think if our bullpen holds up through the end of the year, that it would be prudent to keep that bullpen intact for next season. Let’s face it, with all the work that bullpen has done to date, if they hold up through the end of the season, thats a special bullpen.
Jim’s Soria idea is most interesting.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months agoQuick update, Omaha won 5-1, JaKKKe threw 7 innings, gave up 4 hits, a run, 2 walks, 2 strike outs in 86 pitches. This pitching thing is getting contagious:)
Irving Falu was 1-3 with a homer and is hitting .325, Wil Myers 3-3 with a walk and is up to .300, and Rey Navarro, called up with Chris Colon hurt, 1-3 with a homer.
Donald Wilson
10 months agoI want to say something that has nothing to do with any resent game. I want to put my 2 cents in on Rex Hudler. I think he is doing a FANTASTIC job and I hope the Royals rehire him. I know there was questions about him at the beginning of the season mainly because we weren’t used to his style. But the guy works hard and gets a lot of insight by talking to players and coaches. I know there is a sentimental choice for Monty and he is good in his own way but he just doesn’t have the experience and natural ability that Rex does Maybe he will someday but I don’t think so. I thought Frank was doing a good job before he was fired (and he was in his own way) but since Rex has come on the scene I can see what we missed and a whole world of difference. GREAT job Rex and I hope we keep seeing you around!
Jeff Frost
10 months agoRex use to really grate on me, but he does have a lot of great insight. I still think he needs to tone down his over the top approach and some of the things he says. Also, at times he is “Mr. Obvious”. I could have said what he said!
I think Rex got off to a bad start with fans due to the entire Frank White fiasco- which I still agree with that the Royals or Fox REALLY missed the mark on this! Frank is a Royals ICON!
Monty is still stiff and uncomfortable. Very informative, but not the personality needed to be on-air. Joel and Ryan are AWESOME!! They are tremendous!
I think the Royals could go a long ways towards helping Rex by hiring Frank back as VP of Community Relations or something along those lines. If it was truly Fox, then the Royals need to step up and take care of their own!
Lastly, I did LOVE when Rex said, “You can put it on the Board- YES!!” after Moose’s HR!
Just my ramblings!
John Wilson
10 months agoI have to admit that I didn’t care for Rex when the season began but he has grown on me over the course of the season. To me, it is obvious he has worked hard at getting to know the team, past and present, and the terminology he brought to the booth has worked its way into the reporting of others. So I’ll second the props to Rex for the job he is doing.
William Wolfe
10 months agoI have enjoyed Rex from Day 1. He is Captain Obvious a lot, but his energy is welcomed. Monty is so boring, I can’t stand it. I don’t care if he’s a Royals guy. Actually, I’m just waiting for Mark Teahen to hang it up, as he would be the perfect color commentator. He was hilarious on Petro’s show when he would be interviewed. We need some life on the broadcast, and Rex gives us that. If only Rex could play right field…oh wait, we have a guy in the minors that could do that.
Josh Cooper
10 months agoI have grown to not hate Rex’s commentary. I have a hard time believing I will ever be fully behind a commentator who says things like “If you want to walk be a mailman, I think you go up hacking. It’s calling hitting for a reason.” Not exactly the mentality most ball players should have.
Other than things like that, he’s not as annoying as he once was. He’s also been a little more critical of bad plays and silly moves by players which I appreciate.
Terry Payne
10 months agoPerhaps the perfect solution would be to throw Hud and Frank White in a blender, then hit the switch.
That would give us SOME of Rex’s personality, and a lot of Franks’s perspective as a player and coach.
Either that, or give Rex a quualude before he goes on the air.
Love Ryan and Joel, but Monty and Steve P bore the crap out of me.
Brian Grant
10 months agoMy only complaint about Rex is that he “explains” things to me about baseball that I have known since I was 5 years old.
Lee Judge
10 months agoJeff: No, I don’t fly with the Royals. I go to all the home games, but do the road games off TV.
That makes it tough because I can’t ask players and coaches about plays, but I definitely get more sleep.
Jeff Frost
10 months agoThat’s good, though you miss out of all the fun on the road! I know a subject you would never broach, but in the 1970s our team was supposedly as fun off the field as on it- Brett, Quirk, Hurdle, etc… Do you know, do these guys go out on the road a lot? Being young and just taking in the sites and sounds of each city, I can’t imagine life is all baseball!
Thanks for all you do!
Larry Tindle
10 months agoBrian, the only thing about Rex is he has to speak to an spectrum of people from 5 to 90. Sometimes it sounds simple to us but to young fans it may not be. I think Rex has settled down a bit. I think in the beginning it was a lot of nerves. He knew who he was replacing, so a little nervous energy was to be expected.
Lee Judge
10 months agoJeff: I spent time with Brett and some of those players off the field after games and, yes, they had fun.
Players now have to be very concerned about cell phone cameras and the internet. As Moose told me in spring training, if they go to a bar and have a beer and someone takes a picture, you better get a hit the next day or someone will say you were out partying.
If a female fan wants to take a picture with a player and then decides to post that picture, the player might have to explain who the blond was when he gets home.
I see a lot of guys taking home dinner from the after-game spread in styrofoam boxes. I don’t think they go out as much as they used to.
Jeff Frost
10 months agoBoy- George, Jamie, and Hurdle would have been in a LOT of trouble if they had cell phones and the social media in the day!! BIG TROUBLE!!! :)