Games » Chicago White Sox
Jul15A pitchers’ duel
Lee Judge
The Kansas City Star
Luis Mendoza pitched well. Last year’s Pacific Coast League pitcher of the year gave up four hits, struck out six, threw eight innings and surrendered only two earned runs. Unfortunately, Chicago’s Chris Sale pitched slightly better. Sale gave up 10 hits, but only one run. The Royals lost 2-1.
Key moments in the game
First inning: When Chicago’s Adam Dunn stepped to the plate with two outs, the Royals put on a left-handed shift. Third baseman Mike Moustakas was playing where the shortstop usually stands, shortstop Alcides Escobar was behind second base and second baseman Chris Getz was on the outfield grass. Before the game, Getz said he didn’t mind these shifts as long as the grass wasn’t wet (although he told me a funny story about a ball hitting the lip of the grass in Oakland, coming up and nailing him in the forehead).
Apparently wet grass makes for poor footing and wet baseballs. Sunday it was bone dry, but it didn’t make a difference. Dunn hit an 82 mph changeup over the shift into the right-field seats.
Second inning: Chicago’s Alex Rios led off with a single, A.J. Pierzynski was hit by a pitch and Dayan Viciedo got jammed so badly that no Royal could make a play. One legitimate hit, and the bases were loaded. Alexi Ramirez then hit a sharp grounder to third and Moustakas — who is turning into an outstanding third baseman while we watch — started a highlight-reel double play. Unfortunately, a run scored while he did it. The Sox were up 2-0, and that was all they needed with Chris Sale on the mound.
In the bottom of the inning, the Royals’ Lorenzo Cain led off with a double, and Yuniesky Betancourt tried to move him to third base by hitting the ball to the right side. Yuni did hit the ball to the right, but his fly ball wasn’t deep enough to allow Cain to move to third. Jeff Francoeur followed with a fly ball to center that would have been a sac fly if Cain had been on third base.
Third inning: Alex Gordon battled the sun while making a catch on a Paul Konerko fly ball. Fans can spot when an outfielder is having trouble with the sun. The outfielder will turn his body sideways. Turning sideways can put a new background behind the ball. Gordon made this technically difficult play look easier than it was.
Fifth inning: Mike Moustakas hit a single and advanced to second on a wild pitch. Salvador Perez then succeeded where Betancourt failed. Perez hit the ball to the right side, but this time it was on the ground. Moose was able to advance to third. With a runner on third and one out, the batter can try to hit the ball in the air. If he gets it to the outfield, the runner can tag and score. Getz did this, the ball dropped, Mike scored and Chris had a single and an RBI.
Eighth inning: In the bottom of the inning, Escobar and Billy Butler singled. Jarrod Dyson came out to run for Butler. Despite the fact that Sale is slow to the plate, the Royals didn’t attempt to steal a base. I asked Getz about this after the game, and Chris said Sale’s motion was jerky and difficult to read.
With the stolen base off the table, Cain was hitting away. Lorenzo drilled a line drive to left, and Escobar did not go back to tag second on the play. Here’s why. The left fielder, Vicideo, was making the catch too close to third base for Escobar to advance from second. Betancourt followed with a grounder back to the pitcher, and the White Sox turned a 1-6-3 double play to get out of the inning.
Questions and answers
Is the bullpen being overworked?
I asked pitching coach Dave Eiland this question, and here was what he told me. Relief pitchers should not increase their workloads by more than 25 to 30 innings pitched over the previous season, maxing out at 90 to 100 innings. That’s a general statement. Every guy is different. Some can do more, others less.
Generally, if a reliever throws two days in a row, he gets the next day off. Once in a while, a pitcher may go three days in a row, but it depends on the pitcher and the situation. A reliever may throw four out of six days, but not five out of seven. The coaches also count the number of times a reliever gets up, even if he doesn’t pitch in the game (this is known as a “dry hump” in baseball slang).
Following Eiland’s formula, here are the 2011 innings pitched, followed by the maximum number of innings that should be pitched in 2012.
Jose Mijares: 2011 innings pitched: 49; maximum number of 2012 innings: 79
Greg Holland: 2011 innings pitched: 60; maximum number of 2012 innings: 90
Jonathan Broxton: 2011 innings pitched: 12.2 (injured); 2010 innings pitched: 62.1; maximum number of 2012 innings: (no clue how they figure this one)
Aaron Crow: 2011 innings pitched: 62; maximum number of 2012 innings: 92
Kelvin Herrera: 2011 innings pitched: 44.2; maximum number of 2012 innings: 74.2
Tim Collins: 2011 innings pitched: 67; maximum number of 2012 innings: 97
Bear in mind that this isn’t a hard-and-fast rule and that the guys we’re concerned about are the six relievers, not the long relievers who have been shuttled back and forth from Omaha to make spot starts. Also remember that these numbers are based on everyone maxing out in 2012, which probably won’t happen, but the numbers give you some idea of the pace each pitcher is on.
Why did Ned Yost pinch-hit Lorenzo Cain Saturday night?
Here was the situation: The Royals led 5-3. It was the eighth inning. There was one out. Mike Moustakas was on third, Jeff Francoeur was on second and left-handed reliever Hector Santiago was on the mound for Chicago. Jarrod Dyson was scheduled to hit.
Got all that?
On the surface, sending the right-handed Cain to pinch-hit against a left-handed reliever made sense. So why didn’t Robin Ventura, the White Sox manager, counter with a right-handed reliever? I asked that question Saturday night, and Yost suggested I look at the numbers. I did.
To understand, you have to go a couple layers deeper into managerial thinking. Cain (in a very small sample size) has hit .267 against right-handed pitchers and .167 against left-handers. Left-handed reliever Santiago has actually been harder on right handers (.197) than left-handers (.302), so now we know why Ventura didn’t counter with a righty.
Next question: If those things are true, why did Ned pinch-hit Cain for Dyson?
Dyson hasn’t exactly crushed lefties, either (.226), and Ned thought Jarrod was more likely to hit a ground ball and Cain was more likely to hit a fly ball. The Royals didn’t need a hit in this situation. All they needed was a ball in play — as long as it was hit in the air. Yost’s move worked. Cain hit the ball in the air to left field, and the Royals scored a run.
Why isn’t Eric Hosmer being sent back to the minor leagues?
When Hosmer first came up to the majors, the league pitched and defended him a certain way. Now the league has adjusted, and Eric needs to adjust back. He can’t make that adjustment in Omaha. Hosmer needs to face the best pitching in order to polish his game. The pitcher here can do things that pitchers in Triple A can’t. Hosmer needs to see the best to be the best.
Is there a downside to Escobar hitting two home runs Saturday night?
Yes, if he gets pull-happy. Escobar’s game is hitting the ball up the middle and the other way. He needs to let the home runs happen when he gets the right pitch inside. If he tries to make the home runs happen, he can get in trouble. (Sunday he struck out twice, but he also singled up the middle and to the opposite field.)
How does Chris Getz feel about being the new third-string catcher?
With the departure of Mitch Maier, Getz is now the third-string catcher. I asked Getz when he last caught, and he said when he was 13. So Getz knows how to put the equipment on, and that’s about it. That’s the thing about “emergency catchers”: If it’s not an emergency when they come on the field, it soon will be.
Royals Kevin Seitzer give Lee Judge some tips on setting up hitting stations
Kansas City Royals hitting coach Kevin Seitzer gives Lee Judge some tips for youth teams on setting up practice hitting stations, and then shows some techniques the big league team uses to get ready to hit. 7/4/12 (Video by John Sleezer/The Kansas City Star)
Perez
Getz
Cain
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoSaw that Mitch went to Omaha. Sorry he didn’t get picked up by a major-league team, but happy he’s still in the organization. I could see him eventually as a coach.
Lee Judge
10 months, 1 week agoMitch was well-liked by everyone and that includes me. He’s been around a while and it’s kind of a shock that he’s gone.
I hope he gets a chance to play somewhere and I think his friends feel the same way.
Scott Harrison
10 months, 1 week agoI can go along with the reasons for why Hosmer hasn’t been demoted, but I can’t go along with why he’s batting high in the lineup. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like pretzel logic to put a struggling .230 hitter in the No.3 slot and hope that he starts hitting. Escobar is No.2 now, but he didn’t get moved there until he was hitting consistently around .300 at the bottom of the order. There’s enough pressure on Hosmer as it is. Move him down in the order. If he gets hot, then move him up. The No.3 slot is too important and it’s been killing us all year. It should be earned, not given.
John Wilson
10 months, 1 week agoI’ve wondered why Hoz is still batting at the top of the line-up also. Perez has been hitting well. I could see them getting swapped in the lineup.
I was surprised Maier wasn’t picked up by another club. If he had, which team would be responsible for paying the rest of his contract? Maybe he isn’t “cheap” enough.
Lee Judge
10 months, 1 week agoI could also see moving Hosmer down in the order and at times that’s where he’s been.
I don’t get to hear what’s behind every move, but not long ago they set it up with Gordon at the top, then Escobar, Hosmer and Butler. At the time they said it was the lineup of the future and they wanted people to get used to hitting in those spots.
Esky had performed well at the bottom, but when they moved him up he stopped hitting. For whatever reason they decided to bite the bullet, put him in the two-hole and tell him to get used to it.
Seems like they’re doing the same to Hosmer, but I couldn’t tell you that for sure.
Jay Hall
10 months, 1 week agoIf Sam Mellinger’s article from yesterday is to be believed, there have to be some moves at the ML level coming before the trade deadline.
In the Royals world, there are really only three types of players - ones that help us win now, ones that will help us win in the future, and guys that we are trying to fit into one of the previous two categories.
We have already made decisions about Butler, Gordon, Perez and Escobar. All of those decisions appear to be correct, though the sample sizes are small for three of those guys. Clearly we are committed to Moustakas and Hosmer as well. Cain had a good weekend, but we need to see him healthy and productive for the rest of the season before we can judge his spot in the plan. Still, for the remainder of the season 7 of the hitters spots in the lineup are basically spoken for, and six of those spots are taken not only for this year, but for probably the next two after that barring injury or some serious struggles.
That leaves (here we go again) RF, 2B, backup catcher, the utility IF and possibly a backup OF spot, depending on how you view Dyson’s role among the position players.
I think it’s time to either trade or significantly reduce the playing time of Francoeur, Betancourt and Pena (unless he’s going to be the backup C) and bring up Myers, Falu and Pina. As we have seen, the league makes adjustments to young players and those guys need time to adjust back. If our window for contention starts in 2013 we don’t want Wil Myers trying to figure out his first set of adjustments in mid May while we are on a 10 game road swing. We have the rest of this season for him to do that while we aren’t really in the hunt. Same for Falu and possibly Pina getting their feet wet in their potential roles utility and backup C.
As Lee said in reference to Hosmer, those adjustments can’t be made at the AAA level. That goes not only for Eric, but for our other young guys. I’d go a step further and say those adjustments need to be made this season. There are 75 games left to get ready for next year. Whether we win 72 games or 78 games doesn’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things long term. But if we can set up our lineup for the long term and get some of those growing pains out of the way now, that can only benefit long term.
Same thing in the rotation. It’s time to get Will Smith or Adcock up again, and in another month or so, time to bring up Odorizzi. Sanchez hasn’t pitched anywhere close to well enough to be extended a contract next year for the Royals (so he’s not part of the future) and he isn’t pitching well enough to help us win games now, so he should be out of the mix.
I understand that it looks bad that the Melky trade didn’t work out. You don’t win every trade. But you also can’t save the trade by sending him out there every five days when he just hasn’t pitched well, especially when we get more benefit from evaluating whether Smith, Adcock, Odorizzi, Mazzaro, Teaford and any others could hold down a ML rotation spot for the next 3-5 years rather than having Sanchez as a placeholder until the end of the season.
Nathan Coltrane
10 months, 1 week agoNice evaluation Jay, well stated.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoWill Smith has been pitching well for Omaha the last month. Adcock, for some unknown reason, has been pitching not well since his last demotion, blown up last night again. Odorizzi is putting up decent numbers but is using a lot of pitches, but is, I think, performing better than Danny Duffy did at Omaha before his call-up.
As for trades, the two I would be looking at are Gordon and Butler, as they have value and could get a return of prospects. Gordon would fit well at the Reds, who need an LF and who have some hot prospects in A-ball. Billy should be able to return half or more of a Greinke trade, maybe an Escobar and Odorizzi. Since I consider this season about over given the poor performance against Detroit and Chicago, I would be looking at restocking the middle minors and preparing for the next wave after Wil Myers and JaKKKe.
Mark Harkins
10 months, 1 week agoJim, Thanks for the updates. I was thinking like Jay on the pitchetrs.. If 13 is the new “our time” then these guys need to come up and go through their adjustment period now.
In terms of the trades, I disagree with you about what you get… To use Jay’s categories, I think you need to get “win now” guys in return (Cole Hamels, anyone??). As long as we still live in stink-ville, our draft position is good, I woudn’t worry so much about re-stocking the system, but we have a few holes to fill on the ML roster to setup a winner in 13.
David Zacharia
10 months, 1 week agoDon’t understand why Cain didn’t bunt with zero outs, FAST runners at first and second bases in the bottom of the eighth yesterday. A decision like that can cost the Royals a series. Easy to write this now but my nine year old son was asking the same thing before Cain lined out.
Here’s a trade to ponder, Dayton: Trade Moose for a front line starter and move Gordon back to third base and put Myers in LF. Unfortunately, I think we must trade one of our top young guys playing now for the front line starter we so desperately need. I love Moose but we need starting pitching desperately. Maybe he’s worth a number two starter in the trade market.
Hos needs to bat lower in the lineup. Don’t get caught up so much with L, R, L, etc. Billy bats third and Salvy bats fourth. Salvy may be our best position player in terms of fielding.
David Zacharia
10 months, 1 week agoAnother reason to make a trade for a front line starter or two is that it’s not too fair to the position players who day in and day out bust their butts only to have their efforts almost totally wasted by the likes of Chen, Sanchez, and Hochevar. These young, position players may eventually become discouraged and develop bad attitudes if the same, awful starters trot out to the mound almost every game.
What is scary is that the White Sox, Tigers, and Indians all have young talent and the Royals securing a couple of good starters whether in 2012 or prior to 2013 season may not be enough to get them to the playoffs.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week ago“Win now” is an attractive idea, but with the offense performing poorly, might as well have Luis Mendoza at $500k losing a 2-1 game as Zack Greinke at $25 mil. Zack went through a few years of that already and probably won’t be interested in living that again. We’ll have a better idea of what we have by the end of the year if Cain, Getz, and Perez can stay healthy.
If the second half team can average 5rpg, then some FAs could be justified, but if they stay at 4rpg, not sure I’ld do more than try to get a Marcum-type #2 at $15 mil and wait out the injury rehabs while concentrating on using spare change locking up Moose.
I would still look at trading a veteran for young prospects, AA is looking a little weak at the moment and Alex could be an attractive trade chip with his contract. The Reds have Billy Hamilton and three good looking arms at A which would be a good start, fill in some blanks between Odorizzi-Myers and Zimmer-Selman-Bubba, and last I looked LF was a weakness for them while they were just a couple of games out. I don’t think Alex or Billy would return a young #1 with four or more years of control, so prospects would be the better return. The alternative would be trading Myers and Odorizzi in a reverse Greinke deal that might please some but wouldn’t win a championship this year or next and would hurt the team in the long run.
As you’ve probably noticed, I approach all this with the goal of setting up a long-term, self-sustaining dynasty rather than a “win now” pattern that leads to boom and bust cycles. To do that requires having replacements for all the current stars within two or three years of the majors. Myers, Lough, Odorizzi, Yordano, John Lamb are about the only ones I can think of at the moment in that group. We don’t have an obvious C, 3B, SS, 2B, 1B, or CF that looks the equal of any current starter at AA or above. That’s what will keep us from following the Tampa model of being able to trade veterans about to be pricey for large hauls of prospects, which allows them to be competitive with a $60 mil payroll.
Jay Hall
10 months, 1 week agoJim,
The key for the Rays has been getting their young talent signed longterm. Evan Longoria is still on a deal that he signed in 2008 (6 years/$17M) and there are options for the 2014-2016 seasons. Ben Zobrist is in the middle of a 4 year/ $18M deal with options for 2014 and 2015. Wade Davis is at 4 years/$12.6M with options for 2015-2017. Matt Moore is at 5 years/ $14M with options for 2017-2019. James Shields is in the last year of his 4 year/$11.25M deal. David Price went to arbitration and is getting $4.35M. That’s a ton of talent right there and not one of those guys is making more than $7.5M.
The Royals have started that by getting Perez and Escobar signed long term. Gordon is another good piece because he is signed through 2015, with a club option for 2016. Billy Butler is signed through 2014. That’s a good core unit that is cost controlled. The Royals would be better served to nab pieces to go around those four than moving any one of them.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoValid points, as are the players who have already been traded for prospects.
Alex is, as I recall, older than any of the above and with a bigger contract. Billy’s contract is around $7.5 mil. We’ve picked up good talent through the draft, but I think you’ld agree that the Greinke trade was the most impactful single action by management, long-term contributions possible from two starters at key positions plus an imminent pitcher in exchange for one and a half years of an ace. That’s why I would explore the possibilities of getting back half a Greinke for a LF or DH. I wouldn’t give either away, but a big enough haul of prospects would make it an easy choice.
Darral VanGoethem
10 months, 1 week agoThe flaw in the Royals thinking as it pertains to their relief pitchers usage is that they aren’t focusing as much on appearances and seem to give a greater value to IPed. I believe this to be a mistake. Pitch counts and IPed have been all the rage in MLB for about the last decade as the cost for pitching has gone up along with the specialization of pitching staffs. The general thought was then and continues to be now that it they tightly control pitch counts and don’t let IPed jump by too high of a % from one year to the next it should limit a pitchers risk of getting arm injuries. However, stats show that pitchers are getting hurt at an alarming rate in spite of every team practicing some form of pitch count/IPed restrictions on their pitchers.
So, what is the answer. I think it has as much to do with Appearances as it does the other two as well. Last year Crow appeared in 35% of games,Collins in 42%,Holland in 28%,Mijares in 35% & I am not going to address Broxton b/c he is coming off injury.
Now, lets look at each players projected % of games appeared if they keep their current pace. Which lets face it will probably happen b/c of the pathetic SPing. Crow is on pace to appear in 47% of games this season, a jump of 12% over last yr, Collins is on pace for 46% up by 4%, Holland is on pace for 39%, a 9% gain and Mijares is slated to pitch in 51% of games, a 15% jump. This is where the real toll on the relievers is going to be felt. Towards the end of this season as well as into next season possibly with arm injures to any of these guys being a strong possiblity.
Darral VanGoethem
10 months, 1 week agoJim,
GMDM has already stated that he intends to win with the position players he has now with Wil and Jake sprinkled in. He has stated also that he is not looking to sell anyone for a prospect. He feels that the Royals have prospects but what they lack is quality SPing at the major league level. He went on to say that the reason why the Royals were trading away guys like Farnsworth, Ankel and whomever else they have traded away for prospects under him is due to the lack of org depth at all levels of the minors. Now that is not an issue and the moves they make now will be more geared towards improving the major league talent at positions where they deem difficient. Which he stated is obviously in the SPing area. Frenchy, Butler & Gordon will not fetch a Matt Garza type pitcher. Which is what the Royals need. Those players would just bring back more projectable, but still questionable fringe prospects due to each having significant holes in their games. Frenchy’s inability to hit with consistency or get on base, Gordon’s lack of power, which is a definite want out of a corner outfielder and Butlers one dimensionable ability to hit and hit only. These guys are most suitable to the Royals at present. What will be interesting is if GMDM trades some high end low minors legit talent for proven big league pitching from, say, The Cubs, who have been open about saying they do not want minor league talent that is on the cusp of playing in the majors b/c they are not ready to compete and would rather have minor leaguers that are still a couple of years away from making it to the bigs. So I would look for players like Cuthbert to be dealt before Gordo, Frenchy or Butler.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoI know what Dayton Moore has said, I just disagree with his statement. I agree that a reverse Greinke is always possible, but think it unlikely until the offense shows some maturity. A Garza right now or maybe even next year will be a waste of money and prospects. Better is an FA acquisition in the off-season, the organization has, I think, more available money than high grade prospects. Right now the Royals don’t have an excess of high-grade prospects to trade from. It will be different when they have two Cuthberts coming up, or two or three Myers, but that is unlikely to happen through the draft.
Jim Wilson
10 months, 1 week agoJim F., I share your desire to avoid boom and bust cycles. However, it may be unavoidable. Dayton Moore has to win soon; his window is closing and he’s unlikely at this point to make moves that improve the team in 2016 and beyond at the expense of 2013-14. We’re not scoring enough runs and we need starting pitching. There’s not enough money in the budget (whatever it may be) for FA alone to turn this team into a contender; trades will likely be necessary. A Hosmer approaching the one we hoped for and Myers in RF, might solve the scoring problem, but that assumes we keep Alex and Billy. I expect, to my chagrin, that some moves will be made that we come to regret later in the interest of winning in 2013-14.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoNobody said it would be easy.
Took a look at the 2008 Tampa team. Of their top 8 pitchers by bWAR, 6 came from trades, 2 from the draft. Of the position players, 5 were over 2 bWAR: 1 FA, 1 purchased, 3 drafted.
Of the pitchers, the 6 appear to have been picked up while making around major league minimum, no Greinke-type deals, Matt Garza with a couple of mediocre years at Minnesota, Kazmir traded from the minors, Edwin Jackson a couple of years with the Dodgers, then traded by Tampa after his one good year with them. The draft and prospect trades seem Tampa’s MO, Carlos Pena the notable exception.
Thayne Griffin
10 months, 1 week ago5 batters and I’ve had enough. I try to stay optimistic about this team, but if Jonathan Sanchez pitches in this rotation again (barring tons of injuries and having no minor league pitchers left) I have no faith in our front office. NONE. There is no excuse for this anymore. He needs to be waived, traded, released, whatever it takes. He should never pitch for us again. EVER.
John Miller
10 months, 1 week agoAgreed there, Thayne. Saw that the score was 5-0 in the bottom of the first. I hope we win, but it’s not worth losing sleep (I’m on the East Coast) to stay up for a loss. It’s one thing to give Sanchez a chance, but I’ve got to think that he’s costing the Royals attendance at this point (anyone have stats on this?). What do the Royals see in him that we don’t?
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoAdcock pitched last night and got blown up, I think JaKKKe pitched the game before, so he’s possible. Should be about Will Smith’s turn in the rotation last night, maybe Davis. As I’ve said, a 1-5 stretch against Detroit and Chicago pretty much ends dreams of contention, so the FO can shift gears and get ready for next year.
Royals did score their nightly run, a Salvy dinger.
Craig Evans
10 months, 1 week agoI am sick and tired of them trotting this loser out every 5th day We might as well just forfeit the games he pitches,maybe our team era would actually go down by forfeiting I said it before he is the second coming of Oliver Perez he doesn’t want to be here and it’s obvious he cannot wait to leave If we’re lucky he’ll need Tommy John surgery too….
Brian Rose
10 months, 1 week agowhat do you think of the idea going big in FA for a starter and keeping eveyone else with plan of duffy, hoch, jake, paulino or something like that giving us a solid chance in ‘13 and ‘14 after which they start trading guys they can’t afford Hoz, Moose, for prospects and doing it all over again. i think the boom and bust cycle can smooth out if you constantly have a solid core which includes some decent pitching…
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 1 week agoIf Dayton Moore is comfortable with what the offense and defense will be next year, he should have at least $30 million extra to play with with Soria, Sanchez, probably Broxton, and Yuni off of a current $65 mil payroll. That saves about $15 mil and I can see David Glass springing for $80 mil if he thinks that makes a championship team. I would think seriously about spending that money on two solid #2s rather than one ace.
Darral VanGoethem
10 months, 1 week agoHold on, Jim, You actually don’t want to blow it up??!! You want them to, GASP, spend some money in Free Agency!!??