Games: Minnesota Twins, July 1: Judging the Royals with Lee Judge

Games » Minnesota Twins

Jul1

The difference in the ball game

When you score eight runs, you probably should win a ball game. Postgame analysis will rightly focus on the Twins’ four home runs and Royals manager Ned Yost’s decision to stick with starter Bruce Chen in the sixth inning — but don’t ignore the three walks that scored in this 10-8 loss, particularly when the walks were issued to Jamey Carroll (hitting .248), Brian Dozier (hitting .231) and Darin Mastroianni (hitting .220).

Game notes

First inning: Alcides Escobar is hitting in the two-hole and strikes out. Esky will walk twice but go hitless on the day. Esky’s struggles when hitting higher in the order have been well-documented, but it may not all be on the shoulders of the Royals’ shortstop. Pitchers sometimes lose focus on hitters who are low in the order but lock in when the top of the order comes around.

Second inning: Yuniesky Betancourt, playing third base, makes a nice stop but sails the throw to first baseman Eric Hosmer. The ball is high and up the line on the home-plate side of first. Hosmer leaps, makes the catch, spins and tags the runner. Any evaluation of Hosmer’s defense that doesn’t include his ability to handle bad throws misses the point.

The Royals’ infielders like Hosmer at first base because of his size, agility and footwork around the bag. (The counterclockwise spin Hosmer used on this play is necessary to prevent injuring his wrist. The spin allows the mitt, wrist and arm to give with the runner’s momentum. No spin and the wrist and arm can be bent back.)

Fourth inning: With one out, Billy Butler cannot score on an Eric Hosmer single to left field, even though Billy saw the ball was down and took off right away. Brayan Pena picks Billy up by hitting a sacrifice fly to center field.

Fifth inning: Bruce Chen strikes out Justin Morneau looking. A strikeout looking can mean several things: The hitter had a poor two-strike approach, the pitcher has a lot of movement that fooled the hitter, or the umpire is giving the pitcher a generous zone. Chen is better with a generous zone and appears to be getting some borderline calls from home-plate umpire Paul Emmel.

Sixth inning: The Royals score four runs and appear to be in command of the ball game. They lead 5-1, and Chen is pitching well with a low pitch count, 64 after five innings.

Unfortunately, the rules of baseball require you let the other team hit every inning, and the game gets away from the Royals in the bottom of the sixth.

The Twins’ half of the inning starts poorly for Kansas City when Jason Bourgeois plays an out into a triple. Brian Dozier hits a deep fly ball to center field and — according to Royals broadcaster Rex Hudler — Bourgeois takes his first step in. Outfielders are supposed to take a drop step (one step back) and wait on fly balls that are difficult to read. If Hudler is right, the Royals center fielder took a step in and then had to retreat, putting him two steps behind where he should be. The ball goes off the tip of Jason’s glove, and Dozier winds up on third.

Denard Span then bunts the ball, and Dozier scores. One out. The Royals still lead 5-2. Jamey Carroll then works an 11-pitch walk. Chen is now up to 82 pitches and facing the heart of the Twins’ order for the third time. Bruce gives up a single to Joe Mauer, and the tying run is suddenly at the plate, represented by power-hitting Josh Willingham. Hudler, who has received his fair share of criticism as an announcer, wonders why Yost is not bringing in a right-handed pitcher.

On a 2-2 count, Bruce leaves a change-up up, and Willingham homers. The game is tied. Chen then strikes out the left-handed Justin Morneau and is kept in the game to face the right-handed Trevor Plouffe. The Twins third baseman homers, and the Royals will never regain the lead or tie the game. Chen leaves after throwing 31 pitches in the inning.

Afterward, Yost said he thought Chen had plenty left and didn’t consider taking him out before Plouffe’s at-bat. After Plouffe’s at-bat, Ned brought in Kelvin Herrera to get the third out.

(I always think it’s unfair to second-guess a manager or base coach, but in this case, Hudler was questioning the move before either home run was hit, and that puts the criticism in a different category. Give Hudler credit. I know Yost has said he wants his starters to go deeper in games, but I thought he would make his move when the tying run came to the plate.)

Seventh inning: Jeff Francoeur singles and tries to steal second base but is thrown out (kind of — replays show he might have been safe). In the bottom half of the inning, Brian Dozier walks and tries to steal second but is safe.

If Frenchy’s attempt to move an important run into scoring position is a bonehead move, then so is Dozier’s. Each runner has to take off without knowing whether he will be safe. Francoeur’s steal — attempted on a slider, so he probably picked the right pitch — did not work out. Dozier’s did, and he later scored on a Denard Span single.

(Dozier probably shouldn’t have scored, but Bourgeois makes a bad throw to relay man Alcides Escobar, hitting the lip of the infield, which allows Dozier to score easily and Span to move to second.)

Span then steals third. Royals pitchers appear to be giving Royals catchers little chance of throwing out runners, allowing base-stealers to get good jumps and then taking too long to get the ball to home plate.

Eighth inning: Alex Gordon hits his 25th double of the season, which ties him for the league lead. In the bottom half of the inning, reliever Aaron Crow gives up a double and a walk and then serves up what seems to be a meaningless home run to Minnesota’s Drew Butera.

Ninth inning: The Royals hitters prove nothing is meaningless by scoring three runs in the top of the inning and bringing the tying run to the plate before the game is over. But the Royals pitchers defeat the Royals hitters, 10-8.

Rogers Centre preview

On Monday, the Royals start a four-game series against the Toronto Blue Jays. Here’s a preview of what we’ll see in the Blue Jays’ stadium, Rogers Centre.

The Royals have left a pitcher’s park — Target Field — and will now play in a hitter’s park. The dimensions are 328 feet in the corners, 375 in the gaps and 400 feet to dead center field. One of the more interesting — and dumb — features in Rogers is the warning track.

Most warning tracks are dirt — or in the case of Kauffman Stadium, crushed lava — and the different texture underfoot alerts the outfielders that they are getting near the wall. In Rogers, the warning track is the same artificial turf as the field. It’s just a different color. So outfielders will not get the same warning as they would in other parks. That might cause them to pull up short before it is necessary or hit the wall when they aren’t ready.

Everyone I’ve talked to agrees warning tracks should be uniform in texture and width. Players shouldn’t have to memorize what city they are in to know how many steps they can take before risking injury.

According to Doug Sisson, the Royals’ outfield coach, Toronto’s artificial turf is not bouncy. Fielders will not have to worry so much about balls bounding over their head, but the turf is fast. Grounders and line drives will scoot through more quickly and may require deeper positioning and routes than in other ballparks.

Billy Butler

I talked with several Royals about this year’s All-Star selection, and they thought it would be either closer Jonathan Broxton — managers can always use an extra inning out of the pen — or Billy Butler, who has shown what he can do as a pinch hitter.

The pick was Billy.

It makes sense to me. Billy has been with the team longer and has been an incredibly consistent hitter. Billy will be swamped by local media when he gets back to town, but I’ll see if I can get the Royals DH to talk about playing in the All-Star Game and what it means to him.

Comments

Sam Neal
10 months, 3 weeks ago

Long time lurker, stepping out of the shadows to say this: Ned needs to go. Maybe not immediately, since this series was yet another reminder that this team won’t be contending even in this very weak division, but there’s no way this team becomes a serious contender with Yost at the helm. He just can’t manage the pitchers (let us not forget, this man was once canned in the middle of a pennant race in large part because of his inept bullpen management). And while Lee is correct to laud Rex for pointing out Yost’s mistake before Willingham’s homer, I’m sure Rex wasn’t the only one. Hell, I was screaming at my TV that Chen was done and that Willingham was sure to go deep, and if a humanities grad student who’s already started drinking can see it, the manager should be able to see it too.

Also, as a frequent reader, I just want to say to Mr. Owens that I’m a big fan of your contributions to the commentariat. Don’t let Jim’s snarky arrogance get to you.
Sam Neal
10 months, 3 weeks ago

PS: I get that other, more pressing things than the manager need to be fixed to get the team into contention (like, oh I don’t know, the rotation). Just sayin’, this team can do better than Ned.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 3 weeks ago

“Seriously, man…you hide behind convenient stats (a 7-day look at Bourgeois? Really)”

Bourgeois was specifically brought up for this run of lefties, that’s no secret, Ned Yost himself said it, because Bourgeois has good splits against lefties. He’ll be sent back down when the stretch is through, also suggested by the manager.

“Note: I’m not asking you, Jim.”

Not sure you always get a choice. Lee has two jobs and is a busy man.

“Don’t let Jim’s snarky arrogance get to you.”

The preferred word is “condescension”, so points for originality.

“Hell, I was screaming at my TV that Chen was done and that Willingham was sure to go deep, and if a humanities grad student who’s already started drinking can see it, the manager should be able to see it too.”

I’m not much of a screamer, but I would have pulled him after the walk. The bullpen was fresh and the team needed a win badly.

“how’s his defense in CF been?) demonstrates pretty clearly that he’s ill-suited to help a team

A much better point. Unfortunately, Dyson has also been scary. Good news is that Lorenzo Cain is staying healthy in Omaha and should be back after the break. Getz is also doing well at Omaha. Position players should be at full strength second half of the season. That’s grounds for optimism, stay close through the injuries and still have a shot.
Thayne Griffin
10 months, 3 weeks ago

Based on Yost’s moves in the past, I’m surprised he didn’t pull Chen when Willingham came up and thought he should have been pulled as well.

I never thought of the Twins as a power team either, but our pitchers (save Mendoza) made them look the part.

It also seems as our team goes through too many highs and lows - it never seems as if we can be consistent. I don’t know if it is because we are young or what, but I’m sure it annoys them as much as us fans (or at least I hope it does).

And I think sanchez needs AAA or something. It seems like something is off, and I’d prefer he work on it somewhere else.

One good thing I noticed today was Perez pinch-hitting - thought it showed what Ned thinks of him, even on offense. Something to look forward to.

And regarding the steals - even when the pitchers don’t take FOREVER (Hochevar especially is long on delivery), Pena has little chance with his arm imo. Surprised more teams haven’t run this much on us.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 3 weeks ago

“So this is YOUR site, Jim?”

No. I do comment here and reserve the right to comment on your repetitious postings of your niche’s talking points. That saves the serious posters from having to deal with this stuff. I would prefer that I didn’t have to, but that is something we’ve been dealing with for quite some time.

If you prefer to continue the personal issues with me, feel free to contact me on facebook. The “personal touch” that you folks are so well known for is not appropriate for this venue.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 3 weeks ago

“One good thing I noticed today was Perez pinch-hitting - thought it showed what Ned thinks of him, even on offense. Something to look forward to.”

Perez just looks so comfortable in everything he does. Hard to believe he’s so young and has such presence. He’s got a charisma to him, reminds me of Johnny Bench or Ivan Rodriquez.

“Based on Yost’s moves in the past, I’m surprised he didn’t pull Chen when Willingham came up and thought he should have been pulled as well.”

Seems unanimous. Ned Yost is probably secretly kicking himself for about five seconds, then moving on. Best to put the weekend behind them and concentrate on Toronto. Getting caught up in bad losses is an easy way to get into long losing streaks. This weekend was ugly, worse than the Cardinals series I think.
John Wilson
10 months, 3 weeks ago

Ok, for Friday’s game I commented that we were sure a streaky team. That appeared to change us from a winning to losing streak. So let’s see if that works both ways.

Man we are one streaky team! :-)
Joe Reubens
10 months, 3 weeks ago

Been a while since I’ve posted - I read nearly every day and sometimes decide to chime in - I’m much more on the stats side of things but like Lee’s perspective too (even though I don’t always agree and don’t think Lee should agree with me).

Jim - I think you are a smart man and you have some good arguments from time to time and I don’t think anybody could question your fandome. However sometimes it feels like you would defend the Royals if they decided to Intentionally Walk the batter with the bases loaded in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth. I think that is what tends to annoy people like Mark (and me sometimes). Also - I don’t know about other people on this site but when you rebuke somebody else’s post and then end your post with comments like “good post (name), thanks for coming by” or something similar (happens a lot) it seems very trite and condescending. It also does give out the vibe that you are the “hall monitor” as Mark said. I’m not sure if you are even aware of how it comes across (and maybe I am the only one who sees it that way).

Mark - whenever faith is brought up it brings infinitely more issues (especially on the Internet), but I would say to you that I think you should have more friends that you disagree with (not saying it has to be Jim), but just looking at the disciples and their backgrounds I don’t know how much they had in common.

And back to baseball! Don’t know if Yost should go but seems like most people are confused about his decision not to use the pen in the sixth. And I agree with you Jim that this was a worst weekend than last.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 3 weeks ago

“However sometimes it feels like you would defend the Royals if they decided to Intentionally Walk the batter with the bases loaded in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth.”

I may come across as more positive than I really am, but I always try to remember that the ball players are kids living a dream and I never try to treat them like politicians or something. I try to look at them as people trying to do their jobs and see if there are reasons why they struggle. There are plenty of people in the market to pick at every shortfall, we don’t need me to join them. The hordes are calling for Jon Sanchez’ public execution, I’m the guy looking at charts and going, maybe the guy’s hurt. His numbers and location are way out of character, let’s all take a deep breath here. That’s not a popular viewpoint:)

Also, probably too often, the “homer” response is driven by need to try to maintain some balance. This is about the only comment board around with any real interplay between the prevalent views and we have been known to get inundated by a certain viewpoint, the “niche” of the market I refer to, when I’m the only opposition, whether here or on other boards. Of course, I also made the suggestion that Hosmer go to Omaha long before Rany twitted it and Mark offered it, like a good two weeks or so, so I’m not blind and am often well ahead of the curve.

“when you rebuke somebody else’s post and then end your post with comments like “good post (name), thanks for coming by” or something similar (happens a lot) it seems very trite and condescending.”

Really? It’s not meant that way, more a matter of showing appreciation for the effort put into a post and also shows that I don’t take disagreements personally. I actually prefer discussing things with people who disagree with me. Used to go around with Brendan quite a bit, but he converted me on a couple of ideas and I look forward to his posts, as he always has ideas and numbers and good links. He’s made this community much stronger with his contributions.

“It also does give out the vibe that you are the “hall monitor” as Mark said.”

I consider myself more of a bouncer:) My view is that all posters here deserve recognition of their posting; answers, when possible, to questions; and discussion if wanted. I also feel that when someone raises points that I disagree with, they, and the community, deserve that those points get addressed.

“And back to baseball! Don’t know if Yost should go”

Who would we replace him with? I doubt Joe Torres or Tony LaRussa would take the job with our two top pitchers, Paulino and Duffy, starting rehab from TJS. I’ld take Dayton Moore’s job so I could look like genius when everyone gets healthy and a little more experienced next year, but Ned Yost’s job with a patchwork line up and the great savior Hosmer hitting .220 won’t look like much fun for awhile. I drop by some Milwaukee boards and some Brewers’ fans would like to have Ned back, get rid of the guy they have. Some Detroit fans think Jim Leyland is an idiot.

Thanks for the comments. I may just take a little break, again, see how it works out. But I will be watching.
Donald Wilson
10 months, 3 weeks ago

Where do I start? Eskie is batting 750 in the 9 hole so our know-it-all manager puts him in the 2 hole and he gets nothing. Then Bruce is pitching a great game with only allowing 1 hit through 5 and then he starts to tire a little - strangely enough just after he had to hustle to the line on a bunt to throw a runner out. So he has 2 men on and the big man comes up to bat. NO ONE even bothers to come out to talk to him to see how he is feeling - not the catcher, not the manager, and not the pitching coach! I guess they were waiting for Bruce to motion to them that he needed to come out. Then after Willingham’s bomb he leaves him in to pitch to a homerun hitter who has already hit one off of him. Didn’t I hear Ned say the other day that he wouldn’t leave a pitcher in (who had pitched a great game) long enough to have the winning run get on base because he wouldn’t want him to lose it? Well, he did and I’m beginning to see why he lost his job in Milwaukee. It’s things like this that are an exact recipe for going into another 12 game tail spin! It just makes me sick! Another thing - you can tell what his attitude is after the game when he does something stupid. It’s like - How dare you question my intelligence and ask me that question!
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Wow, I take an evening off and you guys get all crazy on me.

OK, this isn’t the first time I’ve said this and I’m pretty sure it won’t be the last, but here it is again:

This site was started in order to bring the conversations I’d been having with ballplayers for the past 20 years to other fans. The players’ knowledge and insight made the game more interesting for me and I hoped others would have the same experience. It’s more interesting to watch a game when you know the hitter is trying to hit the ball to the right side of the infield and how the pitcher is trying to prevent that.

It took a while for me to understand how best to use this opportunity and access. As time went on, I increasingly focused on what was happening between the white lines.

There seemed to be plenty of web sites that took on front office issues or the minor leagues or advanced metrics, but a shortage of websites that focused on actual games and how they were being played by a particular group of players.

I also didn’t know of any web site that had someone in the club house before and after games talking to the people involved about the plays and decisions they’d made on the ball field. Most of the web sites I’d seen took the position that the person writing about the game knew more than the general manager, manager and players. My attitude from the beginning was that the professionals knew more than I did—and they prove me right every day.

Part of what I learned in the past two and a half years out at Kauffman Stadium, is that I really didn’t know a hell of a lot about front office issues. I doubt I have 10% of the information Dayton Moore has on hand when he makes a decision. The public does not have access to the majority of information available to the Royals front office when making personnel decisions.

So I find it hard to be overly critical of something I don’t understand. I can certainly be critical of the results—we all do that when we go to a movie—but it’s one thing to say, “I didn’t like that movie” and quite another to say, “I think I can make a better one.”

I think I’m about as qualified to tell a baseball GM what to do as I am to direct a heart surgeon’s next incision—I can say I don’t like their results, but I don’t have the information to give them advice on how to achieve something better. It doesn’t mean they’re perfect, it just means I’ll have a hard time voicing informed, intelligent criticism.

Because I’m reluctant to criticize things I don’t understand, I sometimes get painted as some kind of lackey for the Royals organization. But that opinion ignores the evidence: While I don’t feel I have the information necessary to tell Dayton Moore what he should do next, I do feel I have the information necessary to spot a missed cutoff man or a base running mistake.

Every day this web site points out negative moments in games. Often this information isn’t available anywhere else. Today’s post talks about Jason Bourgeois misplay of a fly ball and a bad throw that allowed a runner to advance. It points out the walks that scored in front of the more publicized hits and how they provided the margin of victory for the Twins. It mentions Yuniesky Betancourt’s bad throw and how he was saved by Eric Hosmer. It says Billy Butler was too slow to score on a single. It also discusses Ned Yost’s decision to stay too long with Bruce Chen.

But…

I don’t feel the need to call people names or say they shouldn’t be in the big leagues or the manager should be fired. I think that lack of over-the-top snarkiness so common to the internet is part of why some people think I never say anything critical of the team. The team does not play perfectly so I’m critical every day, I just don’t feel the need to be a jerk about it. The team also does good things every day and I point those out as well.

I think we have a lot of readers on this site who don’t feel the need to comment, but come here for the very things I’ve been talking about: the site has a lot of information about baseball and the Royals not found elsewhere. The site’s not run by someone trying to prove how much smarter they are than the people who actually play, coach and manage the team. The site talks about actual games and actual plays and what was behind what happened on the field. My guess is a great many readers come here precisely because it’s not like a lot of other baseball-related sites.

So, where does that leave the readers who like to comment?

Readers are free to take any position they like. There’s never been a requirement to be “positive” about the team, but this is a site where you might get challenged on your opinions. We have readers who feel fairly negative about the team and those who are mostly positive.

If you want to express an opinion, don’t be surprised if that opinion gets challenged. Nobody is acting as “hall monitor” except me. (If a reader can’t express himself without insulting others, we’ll block his comments.) I think there are a great many sites where you can talk about firing Ned Yost and not get challenged, here you might get an argument.

Now carry on (and I’m sure you will).
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Quick question, do the pitchers and catchers have signs to let the manager or pitching coach know that they need a visit? I’m fairly sure that Bruce Chen and Brayan Pena can spot if Chen is getting gassed, so does Pena look to the dugout and tap something to get a coach to visit the mound?

Chen knows himself well enough to spot a problem before a coach does, so this may just be a case where everyone thought Chen was fine and he made a couple of mistakes. That does happen.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 2 weeks ago

For our readers who are interested in the minors, Omaha had a nice win, Wil Myers had a productive game, and Will Smith had a dominant performance, 0 runs, 3 hits, and 9 strike outs. Myers played CF, Lorenzo Cain DHed and went 1-4.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=gbox&gid=20120701albaaaomaaaa1
Ben Weddle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria and…I find myself agreeing with Rex Hudler. Letting Chen pitch to Willingham and then topping it off by letting him pitch to Plouffe, who had already taken Chen deep once, has got to be the most boneheaded thing I’ve seen a manager do in years. I like Yost. I think he is a steadying influence on a young ball club and his strategies during inter league play were sound but WTF was he thinking?

The stats guys can tell you how a manager can help win 5-8 ballgames a year but how many will they lose? Ned lost that game, period. Regardless of how many alternative story lines one might bring to bear to explain his lack of action, it’s meaningless. We can hang this one on Ned. And I will never forgive him for making Rex appear as though he is competent.
Curtis Ruder
10 months, 2 weeks ago

I hope for nothing but the best for Jonathan Sanchez; I liked the trade at the time, as we had a surplus of outfielders and virtually no starting pitching. I don’t think there is anyone in the major leagues who doesn’t care about his performance, so I just cannot believe that this is the problem. The problem, quite simply, is that he can no longer get out major league batters consistently enough to be here. I am sad about this. He does not have the velocity he did; his walk rate has soared, and his strikeout rate has plunged, and we are punting the game every time he takes the mound.

I know the point of the piece was that the walks really hurt Chen today, but you really do need to doff your cap for Jamey Carroll today. His at-bat in the sixth inning did as much to win the game as any in the series. Walking is not just a mistake by the pitcher; it is also an offensive skill.
Jim Wilson
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mark, I like your posts when you stick to baseball. Same for you, Jim F. The “Nice post Mr. X” and “Thanks for coming by” remarks are inappropriate, at best, IMO. Jim F., I have learned over time to appreciate many of your post. But your constant need to respond to every negative post, usually in a condescending manner, is tiring and often leads to the type of comments we see above.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 2 weeks ago

“The “Nice post Mr. X” and “Thanks for coming by” remarks are inappropriate, at best, IMO.”

Others appreciate the recognition.

“But your constant need to respond to every negative post, usually in a condescending manner, is tiring and often leads to the type of comments we see above.”

It’s not a need and I think I explained the rationale above, including that it strikes me as good manners. Some posters just get annoyed when their talking points get blown up, that’s the nature of comment boards. I think the Bourgeois thing above was just an example of it, “talking-point rant” meets justification for the move from the news and results from B-R. I don’t find it unreasonable for someone to offer a defense for people who aren’t here to defend themselves or their reputations. That seems fair to me. If that is condescending, a word I hear often, I can live with it.

I appreciate the criticisms, JW, thanks for dropping by:)
Jim Wilson
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Your point on Bourgeois was well taken; I agree with you. But the use of “talking-point rant” is unnecessary. While I understand your view, your need to defend in response to every single comment is extreme. Occasionally, some of the negative points actually have merit. And your point about good manners is disingenuous — if you were concerned about manners you wouldn’t respond the way you do.

Anyway, like I said, I’ve grown to appreciate a majority of what you write. I think you do yourself a disservice when you act like an overzealous hall monitor.
Joel Kallem
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Lee, you said it all. My pleasure in the site has been lessened by all of the bickering and name calling. I’m not interested in who thinks Yost should be fired or given a gold medal. I am asking (politely)for posters to go back to discussions of the plays of the game (good or bad) and leave the rest of the stuff alone. As you said, there are plenty of sites for the other stuff to get an airing. This site was unique because it focused on TEACHING the game of baseball from the ballplayers viewpoint as well as from knowledgeable posters.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 2 weeks ago

“But the use of “talking-point rant” is unnecessary.”

Perhaps, but I had just seen the same points raised on another site.

“And your point about good manners is disingenuous — if you were concerned about manners you wouldn’t respond the way you do.”

I actually started the “thanks for coming by” lines when Lee left town in the middle of a tsunami of folks who dropped by to disrupt the board, something we get too often. It just kind of stuck. I don’t mind dropping that, not a real important thing once I remembered when it started.

“This site was unique because it focused on TEACHING the game of baseball from the ballplayers viewpoint as well as from knowledgeable posters.”

I’m good with that, Joel. Trust me, I have tried to get away from dealing with the Negative Nancys. I’ll take a break for awhile and see how it goes.

Speaking of baseball, lot of criticism of Bourgeois and the “triple”. I think that is about the 4th time we’ve seen a similar play in the last week, Bourgeois, a couple of times by Ben Zobrist, and once by John Jay. As I recall from long ago, one of the toughest plays for an OF is a liner with back spin coming straight at the fielder. That ball freezes a lot of players, so while unfortunate is all too common. That of course leads to the second point, that the triple may not have weighed on Ned Yost when judging Bruce Chen’s performance, being an accident on a ball that should have been caught, it probably didn’t raise any red flags. Just some thoughts. See you in a few weeks:)
Brendan Woodbury
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Jim F -

Thanks for the kind words above. Like Jim W, I have a better understanding now of what you’re trying to do (make sure both sides of the debate are heard, throw out perspectives that people may not have considered, etc) and a better appreciation for it, but when I first started posting, it was much harder for me to see that.

That was certainly partly my fault, but I also think there are habits in your posting that contributed. A great many of the posts you take issue with gets labelled as a fad or a talking point or some similar characterization and the people writing them often get labelled as more interested in fantasy baseball than real baseball. I think that when those terms are included, the entire post is read in a condescending tone, which is why people take the comments at the end in that manner.

I try to follow the example of Curtis Ruder and Jay Hall, both of whom write well, explain their thinking well, and never get involved in the back and forth. I hear their posts in the voice of a particularly good teacher rather than a debater, and I’ve tried increasingly to mimic that tone in my posts.

You’re an original thinker and you have lots of interesting ideas to submit for consideration. Especially if those ideas haven’t been tested before, it might make be more conducive to good discussion to frame them as a question (“Does it make sense to look at bases/out in the game?”) than an assertion. Just a thought.

As for the discussion as a whole, Lee informs all of us about how the players see the game, and I think everyone here really appreciates that. I hope the discussion here, among other things, helps to inform the questions Lee asks the players (or perhaps helps make sense of the answers they give). The statistical analysis begun by Bill James is changing the game but faster in some places than in others. I think this board reflects the gradual nature of that change, and that’s probably a good thing.
Joel Kallem
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Brenden, I was with you until the last sentence which leads me to believe you may not have gotten the idea. There are a lot of boards for statistical analysis (as there should be) - some good, some bad. However, this board is unique, and as such does not need to reflect the change. It needs to stay with its original intent. If you’re interested in that, welcome; if you’re interested in something else, join another board or start one that focuses on what you think it should.
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Jim F.: If Chen feels the need for a break he can just motion for the catcher to come out to the mound. They’ll stand there until the umpire comes out to break it up.

I’m with the crowd that thought it was a mistake to let Chen face Willingham, but don’t feel that as strongly as some others here.

Chen’s pitch count was low, he’d been pitching really well up until that point and Yost is determined to have the starters go deeper in games.

Fans have been concerned about all the innings the Royals have gotten out of the pen—this was the alternative—letting the starter work through his troubles.

The reason I thought Ned should have made the change was the 11-pitch walk by Carroll (and Curtis is right, Carroll deserves some credit) and the hit by Mauer.

Once the tying run came to the plate represented by a power hitter, I thought it was time to bring in a righty.

Having said that I disagreed with Yost on this one, I don’t think that makes him an awful manager that should be fired.

He had his reasons for doing what he did, but it didn’t work out.
Tom Roesler
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Nobody likes a know-it-all and when you reply to virtually every single post, it gives the impression that you sit at your computer all day hitting the refresh button so you can respond to the next comment instantly.

Jim, try letting off just a little bit. Respond once or twice with your thoughts and move on. This shouldn’t be your life and when you respond to every single person by dissecting what they say with specific quotes, it gets quite annoying.* People start wanting to shut you up which is why you get so many long threads directed specifically at you.

*Seriously, seeing you quote everything is one of the most annoying things I’ve ever seen on a blog site before. I know you will say something like, “but how are they supposed to know what I’m commenting about specifically?” Well, it is possible to make it very clear what you’re addressing without “quoting” it. Stopping that practice alone would probably be a big relief to most of us.

Until you have your own site, it would be better “manners” and more “polite” to not post so much.

And, I’m sorry, but I don’t think people “appreciate being recognized” by you. When someone tells me “nice effort” about a post on a blog site, it is always seen as an insult or condescension as though you, the great and all-knowing blog reader, knows so much you can decide who gives a “good effort” and who doesn’t. We’d rather you not say anything than say, “Good effort. Thanks for stopping by.”

When I first started reading this blog last year, I thought it somewhat amusing that someone like you responded so much. Now, it’s just annoying. I’m not sure if anyone else would agree with me or not, but my advice is to post a comment or two and then go do something else for the rest of the day. Either that, or start your own blog so you can monitor it 24/7 and no one will mind because it’s YOUR blog.

That being said, I hope the Royals can get back to sawing some wood and head into the ASB with some momentum. Go Royals!
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Everybody: This web site continues to grow and change as we go along. As I said in the term paper above, it slowly dawned on me that I should be concentrating on what the players and coaches could teach me about the game and bring that knowledge back here.

Another change was my decision to step out of some of the debates conducted here on the site.

I used to answer every comment, but the site grew and I was spending hours every day responding to arguments about the sacrifice bunt for the fifteenth time. (Of course, the guy who brings it up for the fifteenth time is probably unaware of the other fourteen arguments.)

Last winter I wrote a piece about batting order and sitting down a three-hole hitter and what the ramifications of that decision might be.

The site blew up with people calling the piece nonsense and suggesting that I was a liar and might have made the whole thing up. The fact that the players think it makes a difference didn’t stop the critics and I asked Jim Fetterolf to monitor the site that day. (I was in Columbia visiting my son.)

Jim stepped up and did a wonderful job. He’s much more informed than I am about the world of advanced metrics and the blogosphere.

As time has gone along and I’ve figured out what I should be doing here, I’ve lost interest in arguments about UZR and math formulas, but told Jim if he felt like responding to those comments he should go right ahead.

The comments section to a large degree belongs to the readers and you should be able—within reason—to talk about what you want to talk about.

I think there is some frustration on the part of readers who are uninterested in advanced metrics arguments with the readers who want to bring those debates to this site. The first set of readers come here for something different.

But, while I do think people have the right to say what they like, they don’t have the right to expect me to spend the day arguing with them. If Jim F. wants to, he has my blessing.

Having said all that, I’ll go back to the beginning: the site continues to grow and change.

I think I used some ill-received humor on the metrics community at the beginning of this project and now think that was counter-productive.

We should be able to make our arguments and present our evidence and conclusions without belittling the other side.

Brendan is right.

So, let’s all try to get along in this on-line community we’ve created. I’ll continue to talk to the participants and bring the information to you.

You can continue to debate what it means…politely.
Michael Deeter
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Question: Did anyone else see where Denard Span’s left foot was when he bunted that ball in the sixth inning? It was on the plate… not a little bit - right in the middle of it!

Am I wrong, or isn’t that a dead-ball out and the runners return to their original base?

I couldn’t believe so many people missed it.

Here’s the link: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?contentid=22752213&cid=mlb
Nicole_Poell
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Editor’s Note: This is getting ridiculous. The personal attacks taking place in the comments section MUST STOP. We appreciate your thoughts on the game, but if the attacks continue, we will consider blocking users. Thank you.
Larry Tindle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Thank you Nicole.
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Trust me, you dojn’t want to mess with Nicole.
Chris Campbell
10 months, 2 weeks ago

On a side note, I decided to look at the season grid Lee, and it pretty much confirms wht all of us already know: Jonathan Sanchez SUCKS. He has -39 points for the season. MINUS THIRTY-NINE! Holy Suckage Batman! Damn, that’s BAD!

Maybe Lee should email his grid to Dayton and Ned so that they can see what the rest of us see.
Larry Tindle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

From a business standpoint I’m sure they keep sending him out hoping he will do something good so they can get more than Milky Way candy bar for him at the trade deadline. However if he doesn’t figure it out that won’t happen. Also it’s easy for us fans to tell them to just let a player go. It’s not our money invested in the player. I’ve always been good at spending someone else’s money.
Rich Shaw
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Lee - this is my first post.

I met you at the Royals Awards Lunch this year. I was the guy with six 11 year old kids in tow. We had a great time.

I coach 2 youth teams so I am in the original camp of using this site to learn the game. Keep up the posts and videos. I am learning a lot and hopefully passing it onto my kids.

Baseball is an amazing game with a lot of complexity. If you know 10%, I am in the 2-3% category.

Funny story, I have learned to prescreen your videos. I had my laptop up on the kitchen table and was having a cup of coffee with my wife right after you posted the catching video.

I called my 9 and 11 year old over to watch it until I quickly muted it when Ned told you to keep your ass down. Now it was not the first time they had heard the word.

However, they had a lot of amusement watching their dad get ‘the look’ from mom.

Looking forward to all of the All Star festivities as well.

Will you get a chance to talk to some of the players in town?
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Rich: Glad you’re getting some use out of the videos…sorry if we taught anybody a new word, but you put a ball player on camera and you never know what will come out next.

I’ll probably get to meet some of the players, but they’ll be swamped and it will go by in a blur.
Larry Tindle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Lee: especially hard to control what they say when they walk up behind you and you don’t know they are there. lol
Lee Judge
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Larry: Of course, that was the best part of the video.
Jim Fetterolf
10 months, 2 weeks ago

First, not all Royals’ fans are Jackson County-ans and second, Jackson County voters did approve the tax hit for yet more corporate welfare under an implied threat to move the team to Bentonville. Third, Forbes’ numbers are guestimates, as club profits are not in the public record, as Forbes does mention. Fourth, you give money to a business it does become their money. That’s the American way.

Thanks for dropping by.
Larry Tindle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mark, like all votes, some like it some don’t. Had Glass just petioned for the money then I would agree with you. Your side lost the vote so that’s the breaks. Happens every 4 year nationally. I at least hope you voted. Also does Glass own the stadium or Jackson County? Just asking as I don’t know.
Larry Tindle
10 months, 2 weeks ago

Thanks for the info. I meant with no vote. I will have to do some research and educate myself. I think the threat of a move was a bluff. However your elected officials fell for it. I do not like corporate welfare either, but sorry to say a lot of states and cities do.