Games » Minnesota Twins
Jun6Another one bites the dust
Lee Judge
The Kansas City Star
Bad news for Hochevar haters: The Royals now need Luke more than ever. Wednesday night’s starter, Felipe Paulino, injured his groin — it had nothing to do with the ball that hit him in the thigh — and he’s day to day.
Before the game, manager Ned Yost was asked about the possible demotion of Hochevar, and Ned said that it wasn’t going to happen. The Royals need Luke to get better.
It’s not as if the Royals have a lot of attractive options they are refusing to consider. They have seen Luke have very good games. They know he has the necessary tools. But they also know he’s been very inconsistent. The Royals think they have a plan that will help Hoch with his consistency. Returning to his “core” pitches — some people thinks he throws too many — is part of that plan.
But this isn’t the first scheme to fix Hochevar, so I think everyone, including the Royals, needs to see him go out and execute whatever the fix du jour is. The Royals have some off days coming up, so they’re going with a four-man rotation for a while.
Game notes
First inning: Shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt committed an error going to his backhand side on a grounder by Minnesota’s Jamey Carroll. Then, on a ball up the middle, Yuni did not lay out in an attempt to knock the ball down and keep it on the infield. That allowed Carroll to go from first base to third. It might not have made a difference if Yuni had laid out, but it would have looked better if he had tried.
In the bottom of the inning, Betancourt hit a two-run homer, and there’s the dilemma. Do his strengths make up for his limitations? That’s a question the Royals have to ask about every player, not just Betancourt.
After Yuni’s homer, Jeff Franceour got on base when the Twins’ shortstop, Brian Dozier, returned the favor and made an error of his own. Eric Hosmer drew a walk to move Francoeur into scoring position, but Johnny Giavotella struck out to end the inning.
Fourth inning: Mike Moustakas turned a double play and ended the inning with another nice play, charging a slow roller.
Fifth inning: Royals reliever Luis Mendoza got two quick outs, then gave up a single to Minnesota’s Ben Revere. Mendoza spent a lot of time worrying about Revere possibly stealing second and ended up walking Carroll, who went into the game hitting .239. That walk put Mendoza into the heart of the Twins’ order. He hit Josh Willingham with a pitch and then Justin Morneau hit Mendoza. Two base-runners scored, one of whom reached base on a walk.
In the fifth Yuni did dive in an attempt to stop a ground ball from getting to the outfield, but the results weren’t any better.
(By the way, if you don’t want to go to the trouble to carry a stopwatch and time a pitcher’s delivery to home plate, just watch his front foot. The higher it goes, the slower the delivery.)
I could go on, but at this point, the Twins had all the runs they would need.
The Royals had a total of seven hits. With the exception of the first inning — in which they scored their two runs — the Royals never had more than one hit per inning. This is one reason you will see Eric Hosmer playing right field Friday night as the Royals begin an interleague series in Pittsburgh against the Pirates. The Royals aren’t hitting well enough to leave designated hitter Billy Butler out of the lineup. They need Butler’s bat, so he will play first base and Hos will go to the outfield.
Prospects and organizational guys
The draft is over, so let’s talk about prospects and organizational guys. A prospect is a player who is thought to have a chance to play in the big leagues. An organizational guy is a player who is thought to have a chance to play with prospects. There aren’t enough prospects to fill all the minor-league teams, so organizational guys fill out the rosters. Teams don’t announce that this guy is a prospect and this other guy is cannon fodder, but you can make some pretty good guesses.
Despite what you might think, it is possible for an organizational guy to make it to the big leagues faster than a prospect. Say the big-league team needs a spot start or a long reliever. If the team doesn’t want to mess with a prospect’s progress, it might leave him where he is and bring up an organizational guy instead. Why risk damaging the psyche of a valuable talent for one start?
So if you’re trying to figure out why some unimpressive player was brought up to the big leagues while someone with much more talent stays in Triple-A, there might be a reason. The better player has prospects.
Moustakas
Giavotella
Gordon
Terry Payne
11 months, 2 weeks agoBetancourt must be Spanish for lackadaisical. He needs to go. He tries to make the spectacular play, yet boots the routine. So he homers now and then. Big deal. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. Irving Falu may have limitations, but desire isn’t one of them.
Donald Wilson
11 months, 2 weeks agoOne question: Can anyone believe we are paying Betancourt what we are paying him???? No one can convince me that we don’t have someone (including Falu) in the minors that can do better than this guy. At least someone with some energy and range. I keep looking for this guy to fall asleep at the plate. I continue to believe that he has some scoop on someone that they don;t want repeated. No other reason to play and pay him!
Matt Ungashick
11 months, 2 weeks agoLee,
In the 5th inning, you are being generous to say, “Yuni did dive”. It was more like, “Yuni fell sideways as the ball went through his zip code”. The attempt was late and had very little athleticism behind it. He seemed to do to make it appear as though he was attempting. I pointed it out to my wife at the time. Of course, we never saw the replay. He gets that ball and the inning is over.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks agoI saw that Ned Yost was talking bringing up another position player for the NL games. I expect Falu for the obvious reasons, although another writer suggested bringing Clint Robinson up to sit next to Mitch Maier on the bench.
I thought Luis Mendoza did a fine job, 5 innings and 2 runs a “quality” long relief stint. The hitting just seems to look lost lately.
Mike Powell
11 months, 2 weeks agoIt seems to me that Yuni’s leash is shrinking. We’re playing him a lot, no question, because he does have the decent bat and occasionally looks like a legitimate player (at least, a legitimate utility player), and because we don’t have a lot of those lying around, but there have been comments from Yost and things Lee has commented on on here that suggest that Yost is riding Yuni pretty hard not to take plays off, which might also explain his somewhat questionable attempt in the 5th. I suppose the real question is whether Yost is committed enough to follow through and demote or cut him if it doesn’t improve once our depth replenishes (Getz comes back).
That’s the only thing I can figure on the whole Yuni situation - it isn’t just that we need someone to play second, it’s that we don’t have much organizational depth in the middle infield. We have a couple guys that can play second, a couple utility guys, and one guy who can play SS at a high level. Before Yuni got signed, we didn’t have anybody who looked like they could back up Escobar (since we hadn’t seen Falu yet). If Yuni’s not on the team, Falu is the only SS backup we’ve got, and with Getz on the DL, we’re also pretty shorthanded at 2B.
Bottom line I’m trying to get at here, I guess, is that we need both Yuni and Falu for depth because (obviously) injuries happen, and since Yuni doesn’t have options, and Falu does, here we are.
Chris Campbell
11 months, 2 weeks agoSeveral of the people I work with were all thinking the same thing: Why could it have been Luke Hohevar instead? The Royals INSIST on running him out there start, after start, after start, and have done so for what, SIX years now?
Apparently the Royals are the only ones that haven’t figured out that Hochevar SUCKS and has the mental toughness of a two year old. Since the Royals won’t pull him, we can only hope that an injury pulls Hochevar from the rotation. Only the Royals could be inept enough for me to have to wish injury on a player, but that’s where I’m at with Hochevar. It’s really bad form for me to do so, but I just don’t think I can stomach watching him stink up the joint again. I’m going to the game on…I think the 19th, and I’m going to be POed if Hochevar is on the mound.
That being said, it would help if the Royals didn’t have 100 pitchers on the DL, 5,000 of which are getting Tommy John surgery. However, Hochevar was on the rotation from day one of spring training, so it’s not like the Royals would have done the right thing (get Hochevar’s worthless ass out of the rotation) anyway.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“Apparently the Royals are the only ones that haven’t figured out that Hochevar SUCKS”
Hochevar has both the worst and the best start for a Royals’ pitcher this year and most of his previous years per Game Score, created by Bill James. That’s why trends or graphs are more informative than averages.
“I suppose the real question is whether Yost is committed enough to follow through and demote or cut him if it doesn’t improve once our depth replenishes (Getz comes back).”
That will be Dayton Moore’s call but I would be looking at seeing if anyone needs Yuni’s bat off the bench and as RH UIF in exchange for nearly anything. Irving Falu shows a competent glove and has experience at six positions, so will be the better utility option once Chris Getz returns.
Chris Campbell
11 months, 2 weeks agoYes Jim, Hoch occasionally shows some brilliance, but unfortunately it’s sandwiched between 2 mediocre and one horrific start. His overall career number are NOT good. I’ve seen enough of him to know that he’s NEVER going to amount to anything worth a crap….at least not in a Royals uniform. Six years is MORE than enough time to determine if a player is going to pan out or not. He’s not going to.
Chuck Smith
11 months, 2 weeks agoI think the year that Philip Humber had last year and then his no hitter this year is clouding judgement on Nuke. (Yes it’s bad news for an anti Nuke person).
I think early season worries on Betancourts range from 2B is becoming more and more justified. Have to admit though, his bat has been pretty danged good. Realllllllyy missing Getz.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks agoOverall career numbers don’t take the field, so are meaningless. If Hoch had a 6.0 ERA in every game, he wouldn’t be here. Instead he’ll have a 13.0 ERA, then a 2.0. Terribly inconsistent, which drives fans and coaches nuts, but having a good start half the time is better at the moment than the alternatives. He should be about due for a great start, so you can make a prophecy to your co-workers.
Lee Judge
11 months, 2 weeks agoChris (and everybody else): The main purpose of this web site is to bring information directly from the players and coaches to the fans.
The big stuff has always been covered, but the day-to-day, grind-it-out small details of the game usually don’t get the same attention. I’ve been lucky enough to hear those details for 20 years and thought others would find them of interest.
The seconday purpose of this site is to provide a forum for readers to discuss the game.
I’m often torn between allowing people to express their views freely and the knowledge that if some people get overly disagreeable, they’ll drive more reasonable readers away.
Basically, I’d like people to express any view that makes sense to them, but they need to do so politely. Insulting another reader for having a different point of view is not OK with me…but that’s not why I’m writing this.
Wishing injury on a professional athlete because you’re disappointed in his performance is—as you say—bad form.
Last night I rode the elevator with Luke, his wife and small child. She was sleepy so Luke was carrying her.
These guys are people. Sometimes they disappoint us and we wish they’d perform better, but if you can’t imagine yourself walking up to a man, his wife and small daughter and telling the man that you hope he gets injured, his ass is worthless and he’s not worth a crap (and I sure hope you can’t imagine that) why do it behind his back?
I see this all the time, often by members of the media: a derogatory comment made while the athlete isn’t there. I usually think, “Hey, he’ll be here in a minute…why not say it to his face?”
I’m not saying people can’t be critical, heck, I write about the negative stuff every night (I also try to write the positive stuff as well), but I never say anything here that I wouldn’t say to their faces.
And some of them read this web site (they can’t get over how nasty people can be), so whatever I say I have to defend. I’ll be in the same room with them and if they have a complaint, I’ll have to face them.
OK, that’s enough moralizing for one day—actually, it’s probably not, I’ve still got a cartoon to draw. But if you CAN imagine saying insulting things to a professional athlete’s face, a word of advice:
These are big dudes in great shape..and they didn’t get where they are by backing down from a challenge.
Derek Taylor
11 months, 2 weeks agoOn that HBP in the fifth inning, was I the only one that thought the ball clipped the end of the bat and not his hands?
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“Hochevar has, about 1 start of 3 historically, not been a flaming dumpster fire of a starting pitcher.”
Five of eleven in Game Score above average starts this year, including the best and worst. Bruce Chen is eight of twelve, Felipe Paulino was four of six before last night’s abbreviated effort, Nate Adcock and Vin Mazzaro one of two each, Luis Mendoza two of five, Will Smith one of three before being sent down.
For a .500 team, having a pitcher that can deliver a good start half the time will have to do, especially when three other starters are hurt and the rotation’s savior has been doing a Hochevar imitation in Omaha.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“It’s exactly that simple.”
You are stuck on career and average, which don’t “see” the highs and lows, even of this year. Careers don’t take the field, expectations of production tomorrow will. I gave the trends for the alternatives and Luke is a coin-flip, about what the rest are, but unlike them he has a decent possibility of delivering an exceptional start. That’s simply why he still has a job.
Chuck Smith
11 months, 2 weeks agoI have to agree with you Lee. I like the message board much more when it’s focused on the details of the game.
You could put a small directional focus for the message board to direct comments or maybe certain aspects after some games.
I’ll try to keep from Nuke bashing (and yes, i’m sticking with Nuke, mostly cause if he ever turned it around you could still use it). Hopefully he does better and doesn’t end up as our version of Sidd Finch.
Anthony L. Monley
11 months, 2 weeks agoLet’s just give Luke 600 more innings and we’ll have a definitive answer
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“Let’s just give Luke 600 more innings and we’ll have a definitive answer”
Innings aren’t given and I’ve already offered the exchange rates. Better might be, “Let’s trade Hoz and Moose and JaKKKKe for Wandy!” That at least offers a solution:)
“I like the message board much more when it’s focused on the details of the game.”
Agree. Unfortunately, the primary details of last night’s game are that Paulino got hurt, Mendoza did a good job, and the offense is in a serious slump. Just not a real fun game.
zack_delmont
11 months, 2 weeks agoThank you, Lee. No need to strip these guys of their humanity.
Matt Ungashick
11 months, 2 weeks agoIdeally, we’re not talking about Uni, Mendoza or Paulino. When you score (3) runs off Liriano and Blackburn and the only 3 wins you get on a home stand against the 2 worst teams in the league are shutouts, you’re bigger problem is the offense.
Mark Swanson
11 months, 2 weeks agoLee….
I have enjoyed reading your columns the past few years, and have enjoyed the readers dialogue back and forth with you, sharing their opinions and asking thoughtful questions. Apparently your column is gaining popularity, as it seems the more popular an online forum gets, the more obnoxious some of the comments get.
I suggest that some go back and read the columns and comments from years past to get an idea of what makes your blog interesting.
In the mean time…… GO ROYALS!!!
KC Guy
11 months, 2 weeks agoPaulino’s injury yesterday reminded me a lot of Jose Lima after he reeled off that string of unexpectedly great starts in 2003. He injured his groin on a seemingly normal pitch, and was never the same the rest of the season. Obviously these guys are in much better shape that I ever was, but I’ve played through a groin pull, and it never really goes away until you stop running out there and trying to play for quite a while..
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“it never really goes away until you stop running out there and trying to play for quite a while..”
I expect a DL stint for Paulino. I’ll have to check and see who Omaha pitched last night, most likely call up if needed, although Mendoza gave a good five innings…
Omaha didn’t play last night, Mike Montgomery pitched, and not particularly well the night before. Nate Adcock pitched the night before that. I think I’ld use Mendoza or Verdugo for spot starts, rather wait another month or so to try JaKKKKe Odorizzi, although he is beginning to look inevitable after the ASB.
Mark Harkins
11 months, 2 weeks agoMark Swanson, I agree with you. For the most part people here are pretty knowledgeable and much better than the usual internet noise-jobs out there. This has become my go-to Royals chat place for intelligent insight (particularly since Rany has been so quiet lately).
That said, I’m on another sports-team message board that’s light-years above any other board I’ve been involved in. They have one rule concerning decourum. Don’t say anything on-line that you wouldn’t say in front of the player’s mom down a the local tavern. A play’s a play, and results are what they are. We get that. What’s out of bounds is “I wish player x would have been the one injured” and stuff like that.
I don’t live in KC. I don’t have anyone local who knows squat about the Royals. Reading everyone’s comments here are gold for me. Thanks, everyone.
and GO ROYALS!
Larry Tindle
11 months, 2 weeks agoLee I have really enjoyed this site in the past. I have learned so much from your posts and that of the fellow readers. However recently I have been reading it less because of the 3rd grade name calling and attacks on fellow readers. Ball player are tuff guys but still human. My big problem is they have families. Wifes, kids, parents who have access to the internet. How would we all like our kids to see what other adults think of us. Lets all think before we post. How would you feel if Lukes daughter asked you why do you call my daddy Nuke.
I like Marks post. Don’t post anything that you wouldn’t say to the player mom or daughter.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“I like Marks post.”
Me too.
Lee Judge
11 months, 2 weeks agoLarry: I’ve noticed your absence and you’re one of the people I think about when I wonder if some readers need to be blocked from commenting.
There’s nothing wrong with saying Yuniesky Betancourt has trouble going to his left, or ought to dive for more balls or seems to suffer lapses in concentration—I’ve said all those things, too.
But there’s no need to call him a name on top of that (and that comment’s already been acknowledged as going too far).
So express any opinion you like without insulting people and we should be able to keep this as a good place to discuss baseball and the Royals.
(Larry, maybe you can do what Jeff Francoeur does: he says he reads the column and stops at the comments.)
Jay Hall
11 months, 2 weeks agoBetancourt has to have reached the limit as far as poor play is concerned.
Defensively he is a bigger liability than Gio at this point. His range at either short or second has to be the worst in the majors. The fact that the Royals keep sending him out there even though it is common knowledge that he has about 4 feet of range to his left and about 8 to his right. He is making it more and more clear that we had internal (i.e. cheaper) options that could have filled his spot just as adequately.
I realize he hit the home run last night, but I recall back when Jim was talking about Gio’s defense and what Gio would need to hit to justify his playing time at the ML level. Besides the error, there were at least three balls that got through the infield that I’ve seen Escobar make easy plays on. If that’s the case (knowing that positioning plays into this somewhat) would Betancourt have to hit .380 to be a worthwhile FT player? .400? .420? And if he can’t, is he really valuable as anything more than a potential PH bat since his defense is too limited to make him a late inning defensive sub? And if that’s true, why are we paying him $2M when Irving Falu, Kevin Kousmanoff and others are in the minors, and there are tons of utility types in other systems and out of baseball right now that could have been had for the minimum?
I just don’t get it.
And on top of that, our best starter is hurt now. The claim that we had enough pitching during the off season looks ridiculous now.
John Wilson
11 months, 2 weeks ago“I like Marks post.” - Ditto
Brian Rose
11 months, 2 weeks agoI think the best thing about Yuni is he can be made an example of. It seems he is not trying hard enough but there may be other guys not doing what the coaches want on the base path, using sound fundimentals in the field, or in the batters box working the count and having a plan. The great part about depth is using PT as a motivator. Benching Yuni after he didn’t slide into second was great. Let’s everyone know there is no free ride. his bat is good, seems as good as anyone in critical situations but have to play the game right and play hard. He may have been passed over for PT other times too but we just don’t know about it.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“And on top of that, our best starter is hurt now. The claim that we had enough pitching during the off season looks ridiculous now.”
Hindsight is 20-20 and the kibutzer is always right:) I can’t think of any bloggers or commentators who predicted four stints on the DL among our starters, plus the DL for the swing man, Ev Teaford. Injuries aren’t predictable and and roster size doesn’t allow ten everyday rotation pitchers. I think the kids at Omaha have done a pretty good job of covering the gaps. I guess we could have traded Hosmer for Pineda.
“If that’s the case (knowing that positioning plays into this somewhat) would Betancourt have to hit .380 to be a worthwhile FT player?”
Quite possible. Given that we have quite a few ground ball pitchers, infield defense is more important to the Royals than to other teams. When Getz comes back we’ll probably see Yuni go back to backing up Escobar, although Esky’s D has been a little shaky the last week or so. Of course, hasn’t been long ago that Getz was considered by some to be the worst player in the history of whatever. Opinions seem to change quite a bit.
“why are we paying him $2M”
He’ll be paid the same if he’s released. Money is no longer a factor.
“He is making it more and more clear that we had internal (i.e. cheaper) options that could have filled his spot just as adequately.”
We know that now. When I suggested Falu last year before Giavotella was called up I was fairly universally ripped by the cool kids telling me that he was old and his MLE was terrible and that others could hit enough to compensate for bad defense.
Thayne Griffin
11 months, 2 weeks agoWith our offense not producing many runs lately, I think it’s time to see Falu for Yuni especially with interleague coming up. Falu’s ability to play multiple position much more effectively than Yuni will be useful then, and he wasn’t that bad offensively. I would prefer to try and trade Yuni than send him down though personally.
Also, I believe Paulino will go on the DL and think Verdugo has earned his shot with the ML club in his stead for now.
Jay Hall
11 months, 2 weeks agoLet’s talk pitching and direction. Pitching first.
At the start of the season we had Chen, Paulino (coming off his first solid season), Duffy (coming off an up and down rookie year), Teaford (a non prospect that had a decent rookie year), Sanchez (coming off an injury) Hochevar (inconsistent, turning the corner in the second half for the 15th time), Montgomery in AAA (coming off a rocky year), Mazzarro (coming off a rough year), Mendoza (strong year in AAA), O’Sullivan (bad year), and a host of AAA or AAAA arms scattered around. What we lacked was middle or upper rotation quality. Adding a #3 type starter would have meant Teaford, Mendoza, Mazzarro, O’Sullivan, Adcock, Smith and the rest would have all been one step further down the line. I don’t think anyone thought any of those guys would be mid or front of the rotation guys. We had a lot of back end guys, but very little at the front or in the middle. There was no protection in case Hochevar slipped back a bit. No alternate plan if Chen’s numbers regressed. No option if Paulino reverted to his Houston/Colorado form. No help if Sanchez lost the strike zone. And most importantly, no mid rotation depth in case of injury.
Now for direction.
If the Royals truly believe in their own process, their lineup on a regular basis should be Perez (when healthy)- C, Hosmer - 1B, Giavotella - 2B, Moustakas - 3B, Escobar - SS, Gordon - LF, Cain (when healthy) - CF, Francoeur (until Myers is ready) - RF, Butler - DH. I don’t know if that lineup wins tons of games, but if the Royals are going to win through the draft, that’s the lineup they should be running out there. Since a couple of those guys are injured, you let Pena, Dyson and Maier play and hold your resources (Kevin Chapman, PTBNL) to fill in other holes later on if you need to make a deadline deal in the midst of a pennant race. You don’t spend money on a utility player when you have a guy in the organization that can give you (probably) 85% of the production at 25% the cost. You don’t trade for a backup quality catcher. You don’t trade for a CF that duplicates the skillset of 2 guys you already have in your organization (D. Robinson, D. Lough). That’s not trusting the process.
You put your kids out there every day and figure out how to get some front line pitching to go along with them. That’s trusting the process.
Brian Rose
11 months, 2 weeks agoI am a Getz fan but I remember when Zach left he said it takes 3-4 years for hitters to develop in the big leagues. If so we should be running Geo out there more to get his clock ticking. Sometimes you need a better offense to get a better defense. Scoring runs and the threat of scoring runs can change the other teams approach as well as give our pitchers a little room to work and relax some. Scoring 3 runs the last 2 games against the last place team is not very encouraging…
Devan Shopinski
11 months, 2 weeks agoSadly, this blog has taken on the tone of the KC Star and MLB ones. I don’t even read it as much as I did last year and earlier this year because the commentary has become so wordy and verbose that it’s hard to get to the crux of the conversation. Simply look at the tone of some of the commentary and nicknames and you can probably figure out who some of the people with real names are behind an anonymous handle on the other sites. Same tired commentary about Yost, Dayton Moore and David Glass.
I would respectfully ask that if some of you wish to engage in that type of stuff and don’t want to have a civil dialogue about baseball and maybe learning something, go back to the STAR and MLB sites and snipe away.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“I don’t think anyone thought any of those guys would be mid or front of the rotation guys.”
Some did, but none in the sabr community, which still doesn’t give any love to Chen and thought Paulino a small sample size. They were torn on Sanchez between of his blood-pounding sacred K% and his injury.
I thought, and predicted, that Chen would be fine and win 15 games in the 4 slot if healthy, that Paulino had #1 stuff if healthy, that Hoch would be around a #2 this year like last, and that Duffy would have a break-out season. Sanchez was the big question, due to injury last year.
“I don’t know if that lineup wins tons of games, but if the Royals are going to win through the draft, that’s the lineup they should be running out there.”
Two of your line up is injured and one has shown himself not part of the future, but six are set and starters.
“you let Pena, Dyson and Maier play and hold your resources (Kevin Chapman, PTBNL)”
I disagreed with trading Chapman, whom I expected up this year in the bullpen carousel, but would note that Humberto Quintero’s RBI/PA is .155, Bill Butler’s .149, Mike Moustakas’ .131, Eric Hosmer’s .129. He has been surprisingly productive. Sal Perez is the future, obviously, but not sure we can make the case that Q has hurt us offensively.
“You don’t spend money on a utility player when you have a guy in the organization that can give you (probably) 85% of the production at 25% the cost.”
Except nobody knew that. I know, I suggested Falu last summer.
“You put your kids out there every day and figure out how to get some front line pitching to go along with them.”
That’s what I would do and see most of the current roster as following that view, aside from the conflicting idea of trading the best kids for “front line” pitching or crippling the ability to keep the kids by a big FA acquisition. Would you have traded Hoz for Pineda? Would you trade Myers, Cuthbert, and Montgomery for Wandy? Moose for Josh Beckett?
Sorry, I know the code for “get front line pitching” and it won’t happen and I support that. Seems pretty obvious that pitching, in spite of the injuries, isn’t the problem.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks agoFor our long-suffering readers, Sal Perez is in Omaha, joined by Chris Getz and Everett Teaford, attribution to MLB.com.
Lee Judge
11 months, 2 weeks agoDevan: I’d be sorry to lose you as a reader. I don’t spend a lot of time on other web sites (barely have time for my own), but it sounds like a fair number of people make the rounds and have different versions of the same arguments in a variety of settings.
What I hoped would be different about this site was the opportunity to hear directly from the players and coaches. You would be able to hear the participants talk about why they did what they did.
At times the comments section has gotten bogged down in “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin and when they’re done dancing, what’s their OBP?” arguments or endless back and forth nitpicking of minor details in posts and comments.
When readers like you and Larry Tindle throw up your hands and say, “I’ve had enough” we have a problem—and I’m not real sure what to do about it.
If I try to respond to every challenge to what I’ve written (and all I’ve written is what players and coaches have told me—which you’d think would be of interest to baseball fans) it takes hours out of my day and no one ever seems satisfied with the responses. Many people have their minds made up and what players and coaches think just seems to upset them.
If I thought closing in the 9th was like pitching any other inning and Jeff Montgomery says it’s not, I’d be inclined to listen to the guy who’s done it. But that’s just me.
It’s a problem when the people who are tired of the endless criticism of general managers, managers and players whenever things don’t work out (and sometimes when they do) get turned off and see this as just one more site having the same tired debates.
We’re talking about how to respond to what’s happening and I’m going to do my best to not add to the unpleasant flavor some of the comments take on.
All I can say is read the posts and stop when you hit “comments” if the comments turn you off. The posts should consistently have something interesting from the people who play the game.
You can also go through the comments and read those from the people who strike you as interesting or thoughtful.
If there are some people who make you think, “Well, here we go again” maybe you can just skip down and find something of more interest.
In any case, I hope you keep hanging around, Devan. The site needs more readers like you.
Devan Shopinski
11 months, 2 weeks agoLee
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have no intention to stop reading or trying to add a constructive comment or opinion. I think the majority of the people on here want to dig a little deeper into why things happen during a game and enjoy the access you have to the players, coaches, and managers.
I sincerely hope that this can return to a site for civil and respectful dialogue about baseball. I will take your advice too so that my blood pressure can stay in check.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks agoA little good news from the future, following Omaha’s game tonight: Jake Odorizzi pitched 6.2 innings, 5 hits, 1 run, 2 walks, and 10 Ks. Wil Myers hit a grand slam off of Roy Oswalt. Chris Getz was 1-2, Irving Falu 1-1, and Sal Perez 2-4 with a double. Chasers won 7-2. Attribution to MiLB.com.
And Devan, hope you stay. If my long windedness is a problem, tell me. You can’t hurt my feelings:)
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“That’s the $20MM question.”
And that will be impacted by the chances of keeping the kids. Been some suggestion of a need to extend Paulino, if Odozizzi comes up hot a Matt Moore-type move might be needed, Hosmer and Moose will be in play, so there will be a need to balance the attractiveness of renting Zack for 2013 or keeping, for example, Moose and Hoz for an extra year or two.
“They will, however, have to open their wallets to the level of clubs like Minnesota, Milwaukee and Cinci have.”
Not sure those are good examples to emulate. The Brewers are an example of the foolishness of buying or trading for a short-term FA and now have an empty farm system with Prince Fielder gone and Greinke and Marcum on their way out the door as the team has a similar record to the Royals. The Twins have most of their excess tied up in Mauer and Morneau, as I recall.
The Royals should have the financial room to add, perhaps, $15 or $20 million, but I expect them to devote as much as possible to extensions and what they don’t spend to save for an expensive future. That’s “Mission: Dynasty”.
Thayne Griffin
11 months, 2 weeks agoWil Myers has played CF before….seems like a good reason for a call up to me!
I’m also kind of upset Verdugo didn’t even get an appearance since he had pitched well in AAA. I wonder if that could have a potential affect on his psyche in the future.
Glad to see CRob (perhaps) get a chance though if for nothing else to try and upgrade his trade value. Good to see him (possibly) rewarded for his great hitting in AA and AAA the last few years (maybe it will earn Myers a call up as well).
Joel Kallem
11 months, 2 weeks agoBuying pitching is a risky thing as the Royals have found in the past and the Yankees have experienced this year. Arms are fragile things, and you never know what you are going to get.
I’m not opposed to trying to sign a quality pitcher if we can find one that a. wants to play for the Royals; b. Has a proven track record; and c. can be “bought” without breaking the bank and/or trading away position players who are on the field every day. We moan about losing Grinke (who has been an excellent pitcher for two years, but who didn’t want to play with the Royals), but we gloss over the fact that without the trade we would not have Esky on the field every day and the potential of Cain. If Cain pans out when he gets healthy and becomes our center fielder of the future, an very valid arguement can be made that the two of them will net the Royals more wins than the net wins (wins minus losses) of the pitcher who we gave up for them.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“Marcum may well be available for around $10MM (or simply dropping Yuni, Quintero, Broxton and Getz, to put it in Royals’ payroll terms, without spending another dime more than they are right now).”
Marcum is possible, local kid with health issues as I recall. Transition to the AL will make him about a 4.00 ERA pitcher, about a Bruce Chen.
“Honestly, if this team can’t compete with the Clevelands, Milwaukees, Minnesotas and Cincis of the world, then they simply cannot compete, period.”
They’re competing with Minnesota and the Brewers and managed to knock the Indians out of first place. Wins are on the field, not in amount of payroll.
“Time for the excuses to stop and the commitment to winning we were all promised during the Stadium Improvement Referendum campaign to start”
Payroll is up 67% over last year.
“What that leaves you with is the 13th best starters’ ERA in a 14-team league.”
And the 10th best team ERA, just behind the Rays and ahead of the Tigers and Indians and Twins and 0.18 behind the White Sox. The team’s problem is hitting, not pitching.
“we gloss over the fact that without the trade we would not have Esky on the field every day and the potential of Cain.”
And we saw what Odorizzi did tonight. Milwaukee crippled their team for years for one playoff series. I’ld rather the Royals avoided that.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“playing guys like Chris Getz, Quintero, and Dyson”
Getz is on the DL and Quintero has a higher RBI/PA than Bill et al. The rest of the points we’ve covered several times and, as they are ultimately a matter of opinion, there will be no winner.
Lee Judge
11 months, 2 weeks agoMark (and anybody else who has the same question: I don’t want to stifle dissent or criticism on the web site.
Just because a major leaguer says something, it doesn’t automatically make it true. (Although, I’m going to give it serious consideration—that guy’s been there, I haven’t.)
So everyone is not required to agree, it’s how they express that disagreement.
I’m clearly making things up as I go along. This web site has grown and evolved. Some of the things I was doing at the beginning, I’ve completely dropped. The debates here have evolved. I don’t want to limit that, but I want this to be a site where people can express themselves without getting insulted for disagreeing with another reader (which I don’t think you’ve done, but others have).
Let’s go with this: criticism is OK, abuse is not.
Tracy Anderson May
11 months, 2 weeks agoAs someone who has been a casual fan for years (Brewers), I found this blog because someone suggested I could learn to dig deeper and really ‘get’ the game from your clear insights and explanations. I so appreciate that Lee and am really getting excited by what I’m learning!! I, too, am completely turned off by a few holier-than-thous on here, so I totally ignore their comments. Thank you for providing a place for someone to really learn. BTW, my family was back in Milwaukee and other parts of the state visiting during Yost’s last season and everywhere we went, all we overheard were solid positives on Yost and the job he was doing as well as how he very quietly contributed to the community at large. These players, coaches, groundskeepers, etc., are so much more than what we see on t.v. or hear on sports talk. The question we should all ask ourselves is how well would our performances/lives play out in the same type of public arena? Again, many thanks to the positive and helpful ones and a Happy Friday to all!
Rick Crawford
11 months, 2 weeks agoI mean to say this in a light-hearted, way - you know how Luke sometimes forgets to keep throwing inside? someone in the crowd needs to hold a sign up - throw inside, Luke!
I think it’s fair to criticize a guy with nearly 650 innings in a 6 year big league career, for forgetting something like throw the ball inside.
Gary Chesney
11 months, 2 weeks agoHi Lee. A couple of comments. I live in Oklahoma and don’t get to many games, but I was at the game on Wednesday. It was obvious right away that Mendoza was overly concerned about the runner in the (5th inning?) which led to a couple of runs. Why didn’t the pitching coach come out after the second pitch and remind him that we had 2 outs and “get the hitter”? It seemed so obvious that Mendoza was distracted and our coaches sat in the dugout.
In the bottom of the 9th with the royals down 2 and nobody on base, why did Giovattella and Dyson swing at the first strike? When I grew up, you “took a strike” in those situations.
As to all the negative commentary. The coaches and executives have forgotten more about baseball than any of us know, myself included. I like to hear why the team did something, ie I want to understand why they did what they did. Why are Hochevar and Yuni on the team? Because they don’t think they have better options right now. It’s hard to be competitive if you have too many guys in the lineup who only hit singles when they play. And bringing up a pitcher who isn’t ready might damage him so that he is never ready. The Royals are 6 1/2 games out and haven’t had their starting catcher (who I think will be their best player in a year or two) and their starting center fielder. And a bunch of pitching injuries. I think we can tell from how they are using Giovatella that they have decided he is not the answer at second base.
Enjoy the site, Lee.
Sean Fite
11 months, 2 weeks agoKeep doing what you’re doing, Lee! I haven’t missed one article, and it’s the first thing I read each day. We all have to remember that we are solving the Royals’ “problems” after the fact. Moore, Yost, etc, are all doing their best BEFORE knowing the results. We might be in the same place without all our injuries, or we might be leading the weak Central division. I don’t understand the Yuni signing, but that’s about the only thing that really grates on me regarding the management of this team.
Thanks, Lee, for the continued excellent insight!
Larry Tindle
11 months, 2 weeks agoGary, don’t want to talk for the coaches but when facing a good closer, often the first pitch is the best one you are going to see. I too was taught to make the pitcher throw a strike before swinging. However they were not professional pitchers.
That being said I still have problems with how many first pitch swings I see in all of baseball. Then when the pitcher is throwing first pitch fast balls down the middle every time I get angry because we are not swinging. Guess that’s the good Larry and bad Larry arguing with himself.
Larry Tindle
11 months, 2 weeks agoMark, please do not take your ball and go home. Your voice is valuable to this site. You are right, you will probably not change some peoples mind and we won’t change yours. However I have learned a lot from your posts, although they seem a little wordy for me at times.
Your points are valid, just not what I choose to focus on. I like to focus on what is going on with the hand we have been dealt and how the players perform.
Yes I am happy to have any MLB team here than none at all. Doesn’t mean I don’t want them to win.
I actually find your and Jims discussions humorous at times. Kind of like two alpha males trying to claim the same territory. I don’t know what was promised to Jackson County residents to get the millage passed as I did not have a dog in that fight living in Kansas. I do know I spend more money in Jackson County because of the Royals.
You advocate spending more money. Don’t totally disagree. Just spend it wisely. Don’t know if you can get the figures but I have been told that the Royals TV contract is one of the lowest in MLB and runs for several more years. It was a good one when signed but times have changed. That would be an interesting study.
I admit I have only been here since 2004. Don’t have the long history some on here do. I can tell you that I have seen a lot of changes for the better in that time and the trend to me appears to be headed in the right direction.
I think, and have nothing but my opinion to back it up, we are now at a stage where top FA’s may actually take a look at coming to KC without the 50% overpay that would have been required in the past.
Jim Fetterolf
11 months, 2 weeks ago“It appears this space isn’t a good fit for my/our point of view, and that’s ok.”
Your niche’s point of view is a fine fit and we have enjoyed having people from other sites come to visit us and write about us fairly often. That’s one of the beauties of this community, lots of participation of people with wide views.
“what’s the incentive for the company in question to change?”
The challenge for Dayton Moore and the Legacy for David Glass.
One major difference in our viewpoints is that you think that the history of the club since Mr. Kauffman nearly destroyed the organization between trying to buy a championship and crippling succession in favor of his Foundation, two well-meaning examples of trying to build a legacy, has anything to do with Mr. Glass’ efforts in the last six years to build his own legacy, using a similar model to the early Royals and with a protege of John Schuerholz in charge.
“I think, and have nothing but my opinion to back it up, we are now at a stage where top FA’s may actually take a look at coming to KC without the 50% overpay that would have been required in the past.”
Agree, and an important change since Jose Guillen was the best we could do. Baseball isn’t Fantasy, it takes time to build an organization from essentially zero. I date back to Charles O. Finley and am pleased with the progress that the new regime has made. Others might disagree.
At some point it gets down to management style and I like Dayton Moore’s. I am recently pleased, as an example, with how he is getting some young guys a cup of coffee and a major league paycheck, if only for a couple of weeks. This sends a message to the grunts toiling away in the minors and it also may enhance value for what I expect to be some upcoming trades.
“Now, I’ve disagreed with Jim almost universally, but I don’t think I’ve been any more caustic with him than he’s been with me.”
I disagree with your worldview but appreciate your talent at presenting it. I see several bloggers with your POV and you are the most literate of the bunch. I can think of a site that you should be blogging for, being a much better, more coherent, and more energetic writer than their regulars. Or you might consider working up a piece for either Mike Engel at Kings of Kaufman or Clint Scoles at Pine Tar Press. Your views and abilities would fit well either place and posting here under your own name has built your brand and credibility in the market. They are both good at exposing new talent in this market.
Of course, I’ld rather you at least drop by every now and then. We need you and Brendan and Jay for balance. Thanks.
Lee Judge
11 months, 2 weeks agoMark: I agree, I don’t think you were abusive and I wasn’t thinking of you when I wrote that..but others have been.
I think it’s great that people with different points of view show up here to debate the gamne we all love and your point of view should be presented. Like others here, I’d be sorry if you stopped commenting.
I just don’t want others to withdraw because they feel they’ll get abused (again, not by you) for having a different point of view.
For me personally, I don’t think seeing progress on the field is a sign that fans have blinders on. This is a much better team defensively than they were in 2010. Same with the bullpen. Clearly, not enough starting pitching.
But after 25 years of cast-offs and watching talented players leave, some fans are understandably encouraged by the progress they see: a young group of talented players that we may be able to retain for a while.
Rick: I agree, I don’t know how you forget to throw inside.
Gary: I’d go along with Larry’s response. hitters try to work starters and get them out of the game early. Once they’re into the back end of the pen, pitch count isn’t going to make much difference.
With top-of-the-line closers you may see one hittable fastball and if you miss it, you’re in trouble. When hitters foul that one back we all see the look on their face like they just had a crop fail. They know that was their chance and they probably won’t get another.
Tracy: Thanks, always nice to have a new reader. If you want to go back and see other posts, click on “By Game” and pick the date you want to see.
Most nights I’m able to include something about the game that I hadn’t heard before. Please stick around and keep commenting.